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-   -   Increase in Dual Top Lanes (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2881965)

Ghyrt 12-08-2012 04:17 PM

Increase in Dual Top Lanes
 
Since the jungle update, I've noticed more lanes with dual tops. Riot stated that they wanted to make the jungle more dangerous to reduce early game ganks, but I suspect they may have overshot the mark a bit. Before the update, dual top usually seemed like a bad idea. Now it seems these jungle-less teams can push top without worrying about paying for it. A beaten-up jungler can't really gank two bruisers at nearly full health; starving top lane carefree seems comparable to having a jungle. Has anyone else experienced top lanes that snowball early game since the update, or do I just need to adjust my strategy?

rocketdrive 12-08-2012 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghyrt (Hozzászólás 32229112)
Since the jungle update, I've noticed more lanes with dual tops. Riot stated that they wanted to make the jungle more dangerous to reduce early game ganks, but I suspect they may have overshot the mark a bit. Before the update, dual top usually seemed like a bad idea. Now it seems these jungle-less teams can push top without worrying about paying for it. A beaten-up jungler can't really gank two bruisers at nearly full health; starving top lane carefree seems comparable to having a jungle. Has anyone else experienced top lanes that snowball early game since the update, or do I just need to adjust my strategy?

I very good observation, but one that I believe is more blanaced than forcing a jungler. By allowing the duo lane to dominate without it being garunteed they would be ganked allows the duo top to have a competent chance alongside teams with junglers. This in itself is a risk, because this means no one will reliably take the buffs unless your team is that coordinated, allowing your team to potentialy have double red and double blue. Quite a sacrafice to keep top lane. However, not only are they potentaily sacraficing thier own blue and red, they are also at the 2v1 farming disadvantage. While the single top lane gets full EXP from no last hits, the duo toplane becomes starved for cash and or exp. The exeption here is if you solotop with a non-sustain champion, I.E. not garren or nasus or someone with some sort of built in sustain. While this will kill the fun you'll have early game, should you at any point get more kills than both of the duo top laners, you will find yourself slowly pulling farther and farther ahead, allowing you to bully 2v1.

Ghyrt 12-08-2012 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketdrive (Hozzászólás 32231640)
I very good observation, but one that I believe is more blanaced than forcing a jungler. By allowing the duo lane to dominate without it being garunteed they would be ganked allows the duo top to have a competent chance alongside teams with junglers. This in itself is a risk, because this means no one will reliably take the buffs unless your team is that coordinated, allowing your team to potentialy have double red and double blue. Quite a sacrafice to keep top lane. However, not only are they potentaily sacraficing thier own blue and red, they are also at the 2v1 farming disadvantage. While the single top lane gets full EXP from no last hits, the duo toplane becomes starved for cash and or exp. The exeption here is if you solotop with a non-sustain champion, I.E. not garren or nasus or someone with some sort of built in sustain. While this will kill the fun you'll have early game, should you at any point get more kills than both of the duo top laners, you will find yourself slowly pulling farther and farther ahead, allowing you to bully 2v1.

You make good points, but a good dual top team will ward their own jungle. The jungler won't be able to get in, take a buff, and get out without being intercepted by mid. Also, with the stronger jungle, you're plenty busy with your own jungle until you reach higher levels.

Its also true that the dual top will get starved and that this may hurt them in the long run, but as you said, their success in offsetting this disadvantage will be highly match-up intensive, and you won't know until the game starts if they have a jungler. If dual topping becomes more common, I suspect only a few tops (ones with really good sustain) will be safe picks. I don't want that to happen.

Alythezon 12-08-2012 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghyrt (Hozzászólás 32233282)
You make good points, but a good dual top team will ward their own jungle. The jungler won't be able to get in, take a buff, and get out without being intercepted by mid. Also, with the stronger jungle, you're plenty busy with your own jungle until you reach higher levels.

Its also true that the dual top will get starved and that this may hurt them in the long run, but as you said, their success in offsetting this disadvantage will be highly match-up intensive, and you won't know until the game starts if they have a jungler. If dual topping becomes more common, I suspect only a few tops (ones with really good sustain) will be safe picks. I don't want that to happen.


When do you ever run into a good enough team in solo queue that they actually ward their own jungles?

Ghyrt 12-08-2012 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alythezon (Hozzászólás 32234689)
When do you ever run into a good enough team in solo queue that they actually ward their own jungles?

Honestly, its not that uncommon. Players may not ward their jungle right away, but they will if they start getting counter-jungled. Also, if dual top becomes part of the low-ELO meta, players will ward river more.

I just got out of a game (junglers on both teams) where we used wards to shut down the enemy jungler. With the new jungle, junglers can't defend themselves, let alone their teammates. The primary reason our jungler did so well is because we helped him counter-jungle.

The devs stated that they didn't like early ganks determining lanes. Now it seems lanes determine the usefulness of a jungler.

first time Vayne 12-08-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghyrt (Hozzászólás 32229112)
Since the jungle update, I've noticed more lanes with dual tops. Riot stated that they wanted to make the jungle more dangerous to reduce early game ganks, but I suspect they may have overshot the mark a bit. Before the update, dual top usually seemed like a bad idea. Now it seems these jungle-less teams can push top without worrying about paying for it. A beaten-up jungler can't really gank two bruisers at nearly full health; starving top lane carefree seems comparable to having a jungle. Has anyone else experienced top lanes that snowball early game since the update, or do I just need to adjust my strategy?

I have noticed a rise in the frequency of duo top lanes. However, I think it is more due to people being intimidated by all the hype around the new jungle, not actual "new meta" efficiency. I predict things will even back out and junglers will become the overriding norm again in time.

Ghyrt 12-08-2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anAmishLady (Hozzászólás 32236428)
I have noticed a rise in the frequency of duo top lanes. However, I think it is more due to people being intimidated by all the hype around the new jungle, not actual "new meta" efficiency. I predict things will even back out and junglers will become the overriding norm again in time.

I think you're probably right, but in the meantime, I expect to see a lot of jungler and top laners raging at each other.

FinaL74ever 12-08-2012 08:47 PM

I think that a jungle is important in the game, according to the champion against 2v1 is played will be given different types of results. If the top can only hold the line against two enemies with a stun + gank that's easy and only top jungle kill others, or contrary.

Although it is possible to coordinate the jungle + gank mid and 3v2 you to realize one.

Just my humble opinion :)


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