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Daedric101 12-07-2012 12:50 AM

Best way of pushing
Hi, in my games, I seldom get team mates who rarely push, I always hesitate to tell them to push because I'm not 100% sure when to push. So could you guys give me some tips on when to push and how to push most effectively? I know everyone pushes when they get an ace, but if they still have some champions left, should I push?

Also, how do I deal with enemy champions who hug their tower late game? I can easily kill them, but I'm too afraid that the tower will deal too much damage to me that I will die to it.

Another problem I have is that sometimes the enemy has the wrong people in lane. I play Darius solo top, and sometimes I get Caitlyn top instead of Jax top. She keeps attacking me from a range and if I get too close, she can finish me off. She always manages to push the minions to my tower and attack me as I'm hugging the tower. My jungler is busy in another lane so I'll have to deal with it myself. Any tips?

Last question : If I'm in my lane and I have a lot of sustainability and my mana regens really quickly. I end up with about 4000 gold left and my starting boots of speed, and the enemy has much better items than me. If I leave the lane, I could be losing out on a lot of xp. I rarely go so low on health that I need to recall. So when would it be a good time to recall?

TornSpirit 12-07-2012 01:29 AM

Push up until a point that's safe; by mid-late game, if most enemies are dead, you should be able to push up to their inhibitor turret safetly, and it's up to you to decide whether or not your team is strong enough to take down that tower with those still alive.

If the enemy is hugging turret, which I ASSUME means that your team is stronger than the other, force a fight. This can be done in several different ways; go over to baron and bait a fight near bushes. If they have vision, they'll have to come over to stop you from doing baron, or they don't, and you get a significant advantage when you get back to the lane and pressure the turret. Chip down the turret bit by bit; if each time the wave pushes up to the turret, your team gets 2 auto attacks off onto the turret, eventually the turret will get to a point where the other team can't rely on it anymore. and your team either destroys the turret, or they attempt to fight over it, and the turret dies anyway.

You can't ever rely on having the 'right' people in lane, although most of the time you will. Darius suffers heavily from harass, but if you ever come up against a ranged opponent, I can only suggest to constantly be aggressive against them. Due to higher base stats that melee champions have, early on you should win almost all trades, especially because Darius is an early game centric champion.

If you're high on gold but don't want to lose much gold and experience, push the minions up to the enemy turret AS SOON AS the enemy has left the lane, then recall. This makes sure that the enemy loses out on the minions that you've pushed into their turret, and that the enemy minions won't take as much damage when you come back to lane.

Uncanny Doom 12-07-2012 02:19 AM

Some times to push:

- If your lane opponent is either killed or left lane. Now, if you know they're roaming it's not a bad idea to shadow them and try to counter the lane they try to gank, but if you harass them out of lane then it's a good idea to just push.

- If for any reason you can't defend an objective, try to push a different one. You see this in high level/professional play very often. Teams will go for dragon and someone else will just try to take a turret elsewhere. In normals or solo queue lots of teams try to baron at bad times and I've seen teams be able to push an inhib which is honestly a better trade.

- If you see the enemy team is split mid game, your team has to make a play. Lots of players have problems coordinating against split push strategies and what happens is they go to defend when it's too late and the pusher gets what they wanted out of it be it a tower or inhib. When someone is split, especially if they don't have global pressure (Nidalee, Sivir, etc.), your team should force an objective or team fight.

In laning phase the point of pushing is usually either to deny the laner xp/gold, or for you to roam and gank another lane or go buy. In mid/late game it's usually to force an objective.

On late game tower hugging: This depends entirely on the champion match-up and late game you generally want to be with your team. If you are alone hovering around someone by their tower then it's a good chance they want you to dive them either due to their kit (don't risk diving people with strong CC) or it's a bait from their team. In any case when you dive, you want a tanky champion to initiate and take tower shots while a damage dealer can finish someone off.

Weird lane match-ups: Just try to understand what you and your opponent can do. Sometimes this is up to your jungler to exploit a match-up. A champion like Caitlyn for example, would be someone I gank early if she's top and I'm jungling, simply because she lacks mobility/escapes and is squishy. When you see match-ups that may confuse you then try to find an obvious weakness. Caitlyn could zone Darius in lane but Darius can chunk Caitlyn if she gets into pull range. Try not to get kited if you're ever a melee champion attacking a ranged one.

Times to recall: This is kind of similar to pushing. Some people win lane because they know how to sustain/trade/farm early but they lose in the long run because they don't go back to buy often enough. Try to make little goals/benchmarks for items in your build that you want to be able to get at certain points and try to go back when you can get them. When you want to recall, try to either push the lane to your opponent's tower or do something to force your opponent out of lane and then push.

IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25 12-07-2012 07:54 AM

Pushing a lane is a huge part of the game. you got to know when to freeze the lane and when to push it.

You can push lanes when you want to gank another lane. take a jungle objective, and gain vision of the enemies or force them to be in predictable spots. If you want to get in a 5 man group with your team, and snag one of the enemies out of position, pushing all the lanes is a must before doing that. Prevents enemy team from being able to roam. you can bait the enemy junglers ganks to make the enemy jungler fail, thus he fall behind in farming. You can push to take turrets. One thing you should always have is wards, which allow you to push without any fear of dieing. wards are a must and no matter what role you play buying wards greatly helps your team and yourself.

Skyhawke 12-07-2012 09:56 AM

Pushing seems to have been covered really well already. Only thing I'd like to mention here is that when it comes to mid/late game (when laning phase is over and teams are roaming together) one big mistake I see people make is running around chasing kills. You should be grouping up and looking for specific objectives (baron, dragon, towers, red and blue buffs). If you killed a couple members of their team and sent the rest running for their lives, chasing them across the whole map is only playing into their hands. Push a lane or grab an objective while you have the numerical advantage.

Someone already mentioned it, but if their team is hugging towers late game, it probably means you have the advantage, and that's when you should be forcing objectives like dragon or baron to bait them into a fight. If you already have the objectives then you can try and chip away at the tower bit by bit and they really can't do too much about that.

As far as your specific example on odd lane matchups, I'm not a Darius expert but I'm pretty sure Caitlyn would be considered a hard counter to Darius. Her range is annoying even in a botlane matchup (highest base range in the game). Honestly, I would try a lane swap in that specific example. In general, one always has to be prepared for lineups that go against "the meta." Examine the matchup you have and think best about how to exploit it. Sometimes your best bet is to try and passively farm under tower as much as you can, so that the rest of your team can carry the slack.

And finally, choosing when to recall can be a tough thing to decide. On the one hand you don't want to miss out on XP and gold, but the problem with staying too long is that you have a "false sense of security", meaning even though you've been winning lane, your opponent has now gone back and has better items than you do. Best option is to "shove" the lane (push lane until minions are at turret) and then recall, because your opponent will miss out on some cs, and probably shouldn't be able to shove it all the way back to your turret before you can return to lane. If your opponent is pushing when you need to recall, call over your jungler if he's close. he can hold the lane and keep your opponent from pushing, and he also will get some good xp and gold out of it (which is more xp and gold for your team).

IS134793e5f3c35e84c7d25 12-07-2012 10:04 AM

recall is easy to decide, if you are the bot lane support and your lane is pushed and your carry just recalled, there is nothing you can do in lane really so just recall with em. buy a few items come back together. other times to recall is when you low on health and or mana. but usually it is a good idea to push before you recall, but if you too low to defend the turret do not die defending it. just recall, it's ok if some turrets go down, but you don't want to feed kills much. if you counter take turrets back later it evened out, but if you been feeding while defending counter taking turrets back later would still have the enemies ahead in gold.

Daedric101 12-08-2012 02:43 AM

Thanks guys for the well detailed responses. I'll surely use those tips to help my team win more games.

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