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-   Tribunal Ban Inquiries (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   So what CAN I say to people? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2870530)

FeedingTrollNoob 12-05-2012 05:20 PM

So what CAN I say to people?
 
I want you to post your thoughts in this thread, and I am going to put it in my favorites and save it.


In talking to my teamates, am I out of line in telling someone flat out, that they made a bad play, or are doing something wrong? I usualy explain to them why what they are doing is bad, what they need to do, and how it will help all of us.

I am firm and blunt, yet never rude or vulgar. For example, litteraly last game:

Me - Lulu
___________________________________________

My lane partner Graves is behind in CS, and we have given up a kill in lane.

Lulu - Graves why did you buy a Avarice?

Graves - Cause i need gold

Lulu - Well sell it, you're the ADC you should be getting all the farm anyways to make your money. It's terrible on Graves. You need to sell it now or we won't win trades in lane.

Graves - You're not the boss of me.

Lulu - Lee don't ever gank bot, try to make the most of the other lanes, I'll try and keep it afloat best I can down here.
_______________________________________________
Other than trying to coordinate the team (Calling dragon / baron timers, ect.) I never said another word the entire game to anyone directly, and always praised my teamates for good plays.

I identified Graves as an uncooprative tool who was going to be bad no matter what I said, and simply cut my losses, talking our jungler into not trying to make plays bot, and only coming to save the tower, or if they are obviously overpushed. I stopped going out to help Graves when he would dash in to trade (I would only defend him, I wouldn't commit to something we would lose)

We won that game with Graves and his Ghostblade feeding up a storm. He asked that I be reported for abusing him, and all 5 players on the other team were happy to help him out.

Is this something you would punish? (People react this way alot to me, however I never get banned for some reason)

Space Racist 12-05-2012 05:30 PM

By all means, try to help players who you feel are making mistakes or offer tips in a way that does not come across as condescending or insulting. I'd say most players would like to feel they are confident in their skill level and knowledge, and may react negatively to any kind of feedback on their plays, builds or game choices.

See a player on your team buy an item that seems unusual, incorrect, or not ideal? Simply ask in a friendly way why they made that choice - you can soften the questioning by adding options. Compare "<Player> Why did you buy X?" to "<Player> Why did you buy X? You going AD/AP/<builddirections>?". The latter will seem like you're asking out of interest rather than ready to pounce on them and criticize their decision.

<will cont. later>

FeedingTrollNoob 12-05-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Chandler (Hozzászólás 32131225)
By all means, try to help players who you feel are making mistakes or offer tips in a way that does not come across as condescending or insulting. I'd say most players would like to feel they are confident in their skill level and knowledge, and may react negatively to any kind of feedback on their plays, builds or game choices.

See a player on your team buy an item that seems unusual, incorrect, or not ideal? Simply ask in a friendly way why they made that choice - you can soften the questioning by adding options. Compare "<Player> Why did you buy X?" to "<Player> Why did you buy X? You going AD/AP/<builddirections>?". The latter will seem like you're asking out of interest rather than ready to pounce on them and criticize their decision.

<will cont. later>


The part I highlighted is completely subjective to the individual.

When I'm playing ranked, I don't have alot of time to use chat, I'm 100% focused on winning every game. I'm watching my map, looking at my opponents, trying to keep track on where their jungler was last seen, well, I could go on but the point is I don't use chat unless it's gonna help me win. I don't have alot of time to hold your hand and ask nicely why Ryze has a Manamune. Of course, on the other hand, I'm not going to be the guys who spams in all chat "MOTHER F*CKING RYZE F*CKING MANAMUNE NOOB FEEDER GG I AFK".

I suppose what I'm asking, is if I am safe being in that middle ground between the two. I shouldn't be forced to be some fake bubbly overly nice tool just because I live in fear of some butthurt kid crying about how he is going to report me.

Arrietti 12-05-2012 05:36 PM

there is no set list of ok and no ok things to say in games. Wookie reccently made a great post about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WookieeCookie (Hozzászólás 31839662)
Don't be a jerk.

Players frequently write to my team full of excuses for their case, or fearful that they're going to get banned in the future.

They often want to debate the Summoner's Code down point by point.

Is it okay to do this? What about that? What if someone else does X, and I do Y to them in retaliation? Can I get banned for Z?

And our response can always be summed up with one simple phrase:

Don't be a jerk


Sometimes player's ask why isn't the Summoner's Code more specific? Why doesn't it specify each and every action I can or can't do? But they don't notice that we wrote the Code that way on purpose.

We don't want to run a game dictated by strict specific rules. Because every game is unique, and played by different standards.


How much fun would a rule be that says you can never say the F word in your matches?

How much fun would a rule be that says last pick must always be support?

How much fun would a rule say that you can never be Rammus support because he's not considered "optimal" by the community?


Every game should be judged by its own context. And that's why the core rule is always:

Don't be a jerk.


You can say the F word in a friendly context:



You can also say it in a very toxic context:




---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


Sometimes it makes sense for last pick to be something besides support:


Sometimes the situation can be very toxic:



---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


Sometimes it makes sense to go with a real unusual support pick:



Sometimes an unusual pick can be really toxic:



---The key difference? Don't be a jerk


I've seen this case emote spamming case before. And he fails the test. He was being a jerk.

You can see in his matches that other players ask him to stop. They even do so nicely at some points. But this player doesn't care. He doesn't care because he's being a jerk.

Is he using a feature of our game which has many legitimate purposes? Of course!

But is he abusing this legitimate feature to be a jerk? Yes. He is literally spamming the same phrase throughout the entire duration of the game.

Could other players fiddle with their sound settings to disable this? Sure.

Should we expect other players to adjust their player experience because a jerk is harassing them?

No. Never.

I even spent some extra time looking up this player's past harassment history. This is not an isolated 5 games this player has done this. He has repeatedly found ways to annoy and harass other players. That's the main reason he has a tribunal case in the first place.

Lyte has mentioned this in the past, but the Tribunal is really great at finding jerks in our game. But it's not always great at providing the full context of just how much of a jerk they are. But always keep in mind it takes many reports, in many games, by many people to even be considered for the Tribunal. The system may only pull 1 to 5 chat logs for a case, but make no doubt about it, the accused has been reported in many many more games than that.

The process is always being iterated on and improved though. And if the PB&J Team sees a need for the additional context to be shown, I'm confident in their abilities to make that happen.

So in regards to the above example, ask yourself if reading what you write, would you think you were a jerk? Personally when you try and be helpful I am less inclined to think "what an *******" its ok in my book to explain to an adc that he doesnt need a pergold item and can take all the farm for gold however I think you could have phrased it a little nicer and also explained why it sucks and a better alternative item. I also think you went further to the 'jerk" side than needed by telling your jungler not to gank bot but I doubt I would punish for what you wrote above. Identifying someone as an uncooperative tool and adjusting your attitude towards them is different then saying they are an uncooperative tool and insulting their plays etc.

Don't worry too much about people who say they are going to report you, turns out they rarely do. And even if you are reported, you still have to have done something wrong to actually get punished.

FeedingTrollNoob 12-05-2012 05:41 PM

That part in the post above me where it says "You should be able to play Rammus support even though it sucks" should not even remotely apply to ranked. My head hurts.

Shiister 12-05-2012 05:45 PM

I would have to see chat logs OP to be 100%, but no I wouldn't punish if you didn't harass Graves to a certain point, such as pointing out his mistakes in all chat, harassing him about his item choice, and the like.

Sereg Anfaug 12-05-2012 05:58 PM

Based on what you've told us, I don't think there is anything Punishable. If you've left something out, or rephrased what you said, then I can't help you.

But with just that? You shouldn't have any trouble.

FeedingTrollNoob 12-05-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereg Anfaug (Hozzászólás 32132326)
Based on what you've told us, I don't think there is anything Punishable. If you've left something out, or rephrased what you said, then I can't help you.

But with just that? You shouldn't have any trouble.


I'm just throwing this out there to get peoples thought on interacting with people in this way. I saw someone said something about chat logs, I Don't have a Tribunal case or anything, I just want to be ahead of the curve in changing if I need to.

I'm a Geek, and I love my Elo xD

Sereg Anfaug 12-05-2012 06:53 PM

Well. You might consider a name change... that's not gonna look good if you ever do get to Tribunal, lol.

DiabolusReborn 12-05-2012 07:10 PM

You can't.

Best thing is to say NOTHING.

the only time you would say anything is if you feed, even intentionally, just make up some bs like "sorry guys just having a bad day" and have a half decent build. Even if you go 0/20 by intentional feed, if you acknowledge that you feed, you won't get banned.

also, say mia every 10 minutes or so. even if your guy isn't mia. Tribunal can't ban you for not communicating if there is the occasional mia in chat.

don't say gg/glhf/gj/ty at the end/start of the game, someone might take offence at it.

follow these rules and you can troll as hard as you like, and you won't get banned.


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