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-   -   Enough with the "FoN is gone, there's no MR item" threads. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2868460)

OdiIon 12-05-2012 06:15 AM

Enough with the "FoN is gone, there's no MR item" threads.
 
In the past night, I'd say I read about a dozen different threads complaining on the absence of FoN(Force-of-Nature). So here I posted a quoted post explaining the theory behind countering "AP Carries" and why FoN was removed with right justification.

In addition I answer the question of;

"FON gone, dere no MR itemz, Riot pls brng bak FON, pls pls?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xshu Bastion (Hozzászólás 32108904)
I think the goal wasn't to simply make it hard to stack a lot of MR, but rather to make it completely unfeasible. You just can't now, and that's because they don't want you to. Most mages were falling off in the late game because the way they operated, with their cooldown limiting the amount of damage they can do compared to an AD carry, stacking MR would completely shut them down in a way that wasn't quite true with armor and AD champions. Many AP champs used to have the "Carry" tag, but it was removed for all of them because it wasn't true in the same way that it was for AD carries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OdiIon
This. This. A million times this. How do you counter AP champions? Stack health, that takes the bite out of their attacks, want to defang them and exhaust any hopes of doing any damage to you? Throw a FoN into the equation.

FoN was outrageously overpowered for an item of it's cost. It provided the highest HP5 imaginable, and the highest MR value in the game, top it off with MS and you have an uncatchable tank, that doesn't even share disregard for mages anymore.

All through the forums I've read nothing but complaints that FoN is gone. I'm for one am glad it's gone. Every time I played Hecarim, I'd build, Trinity , Randuin's, FH, then FoN, and I'd lose all regards for human / yordle life. FoN just grants too many options.

Want MR? Chalice/Maw/Banshee's/(NEW) Spirit Visage/Twin Shadows/Runic Bulwark/Crucible/Scimitar are still at your discretion. I'm sure I missed an item or two, there's plenty of options.

Want that HP5 you loved so much? Grab the new Warmog.

No use crying over what's gone folks. It's season 3, stop living in the past.

(Pre)Season 3 just got here and people are complaining about the one outrageously strong item being removed from the game. Its removal was completely justified.

74MR, 0.35% Health Regen, +40 HP5, 8% movement speed. 2610 Gold

Almost 80 MR on a single item with a cost of slightly more than Banshee's veil(2500). That's an incredible amount. I

So let's for short use Hecarim's base MR at 18. NO RUNES, NO MASTERIES.
52.5 MR, for the sake of argument we round down.

52MR + 78 MR = 130 MR.
That's a 43% magic damage reduction, from ONE ITEM, NO RUNES, NO MASTERIES.

So let's use a standard build on Hecarim with for the sake of argument Season 2 runes and masteries.

Merc Threads, Spirit Visage, Trinity Force, FoN, Randuin's, Frozen Heart. A simple and easily executable build of about 12-14Kg.

25MR, 30MR, 76 MR. +24 from runes, +53 from base scaling MR, +2-6 MR from masteries.

210-214 MR. This equates to 67-68% magic reduction from AP champions. Congratulations, Veigar, Leblanc, don't even exist anymore, or any AP champion with that matter.


So there are no MR options right? Wrong. The new spirit visage is new and improved and is AMAZING.

50MR, 200 Health, 15% CDR, 20% improved healing. Best of all? It's damned cheap.

So let's redo the math without FoN and throw in Spirit Visage 3.0(2250 Gold)

154-158 MR. This equates to 60-61%. Still plenty of MR. but if you feel it's not enough? I listed a dozen options in the quote above.

Autocthon 12-05-2012 07:11 AM

The DPS APs were the only champs stacking MR was fair against...

Which are basically Vlad, Karthus, Cassi, and Ryze

Bees 12-05-2012 09:38 AM

I miss FoN. I don't remember people crying about it before, and if you are against a very strong AP team, there needs to be a way to counter it. Just like the high armor / reflect damage / slow attack speed Items that exist to counter AD heavy teams. I guess they wanted to move away from pure tanky items and give more options for attacking. Still wish they would have at least replaced FoN with something similar.

OdiIon 12-05-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deeve (Hozzászólás 32116938)
I miss FoN. I don't remember people crying about it before, and if you are against a very strong AP team, there needs to be a way to counter it. Just like the high armor / reflect damage / slow attack speed Items that exist to counter AD heavy teams. I guess they wanted to move away from pure tanky items and give more options for attacking. Still wish they would have at least replaced FoN with something similar.

There are plenty of options to get MR people just need to stop complaining about how FoN is gone. Season just started, people need to stop looking back in the past.

That's the point of Season 3, same name, new game.

KamradKomoroski 12-05-2012 09:57 PM

I play shen. How am I supposed to Build MR now? I don't want to build items that give me Mana and MR, which relegates me to Abyssal scepter and GA, both fairly weak. Lets say a Morgana builds sorcerers shoes, and either a void staff or an abbyssal scepter, and lets say some sort of MP runes and maseries. I am reduced to negligable MR at that point. There is a reason FoN was in the Game; It allowed champions to build over 100 MR in the game with only 2 Items.

Galgus 12-05-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamradKomoroski (Hozzászólás 32139863)
I play shen. How am I supposed to Build MR now? I don't want to build items that give me Mana and MR, which relegates me to Abyssal scepter and GA, both fairly weak. Lets say a Morgana builds sorcerers shoes, and either a void staff or an abbyssal scepter, and lets say some sort of MP runes and maseries. I am reduced to negligable MR at that point. There is a reason FoN was in the Game; It allowed champions to build over 100 MR in the game with only 2 Items.

You could go for a Runic Bulwark with a helpful aura on the side, a Wits End to make you more of a threat while shielding from magic, or a Spirit Visage if you'd like some CDR.

It seems that Riot didn't want you to be able to stack massive amounts of pure magic resistance, so the stat is now tied to other things.

There are plenty of awesome options for Magic Resistance, just choose what side trait you like best.

Xshu Bastion 12-05-2012 11:00 PM

Oh sweet, I was just looking for the thread I posted that in and couldn't find it. Well, I'm glad it was well received anyways.

The23rdPiGGuin 12-05-2012 11:13 PM

Only thing I want is a tank item that gives movespeed. health, armor, mr whatever (preferably a resistance). The new Spirit visage is nice but I don't feel like I need that much health regen with miracle and reverie on my tank already.

the item I'm really angry about is Heart of Gold. I miss back when it gave health, armor and gold per 10. Then riot got rid of the armor because of stacking, then they made the passive unique because of stacking, then they got rid of it because of passive play? lame

OdiIon 12-06-2012 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The23rdPiGGuin (Hozzászólás 32141143)
Only thing I want is a tank item that gives movespeed, and preferably a defensive stat(basically the gist of the statement I edited*)

This much I can agree with. I play Hecarim to the extent I can say this may as well be a Hecarim rant, but as of now there is no real VIABLE defensive item with MS on it as well as a defensive stat. Wraith Collar is a horrid option, because for 1900 gold, you could be building a REAL defensive item, like glacial shroud, or be 75% done a Spirit Visage, as of now there is no real useful item with MS on it, making alot of the S3 changes indirect nerfs to Hecarim.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2812811

Scroll down just a tad in that link to see a post I made about Hecarim's passive being nerfed in S3.


Quote:

Originally Posted by The23rdPiGGuin (Hozzászólás 32141143)
the item I'm really angry about is Heart of Gold. I miss back when it gave health, armor and gold per 10. Then riot got rid of the armor because of stacking, then they made the passive unique because of stacking, then they got rid of it because of passive play? lame

They removed it because for a passive item it was really unbalanced.

Think about it. 200 HP, and GP5, for 825 Gold.
You buy it and you hold it for virtually the whole game. It was inexpensive and an absurdly good item because it built alot of defense early game.

Other GP5s were.
Avarice Blade, which was never really utilized, and was used as a GP5 on SELECT champions. Built for offense.(750 Gold)

Philostone, only effective on Supports or any champion with mana. Built for sustainability.(800 Gold)

Kage's Pick, used on AP, and supports, didn't build any durability, just offense.(725 Gold)

Autocthon 12-06-2012 03:22 PM

Odilon, Riot is trying to "force" movement speed as an offensive rather than defensive stat.

If you want MS you'll need to build an offensive item for it. That's not a big deal, MS is better for staying alive than many defensive stats and the tradeoff is that when it doesn't work you die fast. That's a pretty fair exchange.

Currently your MS choices in S3 look to be:

Boots (obviously) Furor being an absolutely amazing MS steroid (12%!!!)
Trinity Force (A great item for most bruisers, including hecarim)
Phantom Dancer (Primarily a carry item)
Reverie (Short term only)
Zephyr (10%! MS, relatively good bruiser stats for an offensive item)
Statikk Shiv (Actually might be interesting on a jungler like Hecarim)

Effectively if you want MS on a tank you have to give defenses up in a slot. Or you have to settle for short term boosts.

Which is fine, because you're the tank. You have CC. once you initiate they shouldn't be getting away. If you can initiate AND never get caught you are invoking the problem we were having at one point...

Bruisers were getting DEFENSES and MS and were not only capable of teamfighting but their enemies weren't capable of disengaging NOR chasing.

See Singed.


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