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-   -   What happened to roles? (Noc) (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2836810)

x7r4n3x 11-25-2012 10:01 AM

What happened to roles? (Noc)
 
Ok so i know a lot of people are taking notice to nocturne as a champion now that his legendary skin is coming out (which i'm super excited for) and granted a lot of people have both good and bad points, bad points being when somebody who hasn't played him for an extended period complain about him being bad, there are some champions you are good with and others you are bad with. move on. some good points, about how he can be a very very good carry and yada yada yada. One point that keeps being brought up is bothering me though. When you look at nocturne and his basic layout, it doesn't say anywhere that he's a tank, or a fighter. granted it doesn't even say he's a jungler. but here's my point, his roles are a melee assasin, therefore as that why is it that everybody is saying that to make him good he needs to be tanky? he's not meant to be the tank for the team. he's meant to be the source of damage to the priority target. and right now all i see is tanky ad (aka fighter) for what should be an asssasin. what's the difference you ask? a fighter is meant to be semi tanky to fight for an extended period of time. like garren, how he seems to keep on coming. an assasin is meant to do a lot of "fatal" damage in a short period of time.granted his abilities are good for that (ult into spell shield into q and after they burn flash fear them) but here are the things that i personally see that are holding him back from fulfilling that role.

His ulti: one of the biggest points of discussion in these forums about nocturne is about how is ulti is too nerfed. i'm not saying they are wrong. i personally find that his cooldown is one of the longest that i notice (feel free to correct me) in the game. and with people like gankplank, ashe, ezreal, draven, and so on with global ultimates with shorter cds on their ulti then a champion who's ult got nerfed from a global ulti...........i mean i don't really see the logic. i'm not saying make the range bigger to make up for it but at least make the cd lower to make it a more viable asset to both the team and to the person playing him. his range....yea it sucks not going to lie but i think it's good that it's not global anymore because u have to position yourself to be in the best spot to kill/assist your team.

his spell shield: not a lot of people bring this up but then again a lot of people complaining probably havnt played him long enough to sufficiently know his rhythm and when to use it. again with the ult i think that the cd should be lowered maybe by 1-2 seconds

his overal stat layout. his abilities have a high mana cost, his health scales more then his damage per level and overall he just isn't a viable threat anymore. when i play as him i find that unless i get fed early i end up with more deaths and assists then kills. and when playing against him i notice that while running from him i can usually burst him down when he out level's me and either force a tower dive or just move and hit and end up killing him.


end of point
i think that playing champions different then their roles can be fun and exciting but i find it annoying that when people try to play with the original role that the champion was assigned (at least in nocturnes case) that it's no longer rewarding to do so.....unless u are playing against noobs...........then yea go ahead.

Lhambda 11-25-2012 10:26 AM

you say they nerfd noc's ult but other champs have global ults, this is true but there ults dont do like 300 dmg and take you straight to the fight. etc they could be doing baron and you could ult to there team to snipe baron w/ smite while other champs have to time the dmg inc + there dmg + how long it takes there skillshot globals to get there. his ult is on a long cd because it is a true global ult that takes him to the fight

Gryphon250 11-25-2012 10:31 AM

Absolutely agree with you. he was meant to be an assassin but now he doesn't have enough sustain to do that with evryone taking cc heavy or burst heavy teams. I just can't stay alive long enough to assassinate late game.
My biggest problem is that his stats make it so that he can't survive unless you take items that take away from his damage.
that and the fact that the spell sheild is just not enough these days now that everyone seems to have cc. if you can block one stun in a 1v1 situation awesome but against even 2 or 3 let alone a teamfight 1 block is not enough. going back to my other point, getting banshees is worse for him because it takes away another slot that could go to the ad heavy item he really needs.

TY :)

Jorfen 11-25-2012 11:39 AM

I'm not going to lie but i dont have anything against champs ending up in a diffirent role or building nocturne tanky.

Autocthon 11-25-2012 12:49 PM

Any melee champ should be built utilizing some degree of defensive itemization.

In noc's case this is effectively a combination of Frozen Mallet (optional), Guardian Angel, and Maw of Malmortius. Without some defenses NO MELEE can perform their job (excepting certain champs like Tryndamere).

MaskedUnicyclist 11-25-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autocthon (Hozzászólás 31804243)
Any melee champ should be built utilizing some degree of defensive itemization.

In noc's case this is effectively a combination of Frozen Mallet (optional), Guardian Angel, and Maw of Malmortius. Without some defenses NO MELEE can perform their job (excepting certain champs like Tryndamere).

This does make sense because defensive and offensive symmetry yields some of the best results -the current item combinations for pure glass cannon builds just don't stack up on anything that isn't a ranged carry.

This presents a real problem for assassins because their kits are designed to utilize glass cannon builds and really don't do well with bruiser builds (see shaco and talon in particular), hopefully the season 3 changes to itemization options will address this issue. But as it is assassins and to a lesser extent melee carries have a much harder time performing well because the items to properly support their roles simply aren't there.

CerealBoxOfDoom 11-25-2012 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autocthon (Hozzászólás 31804243)
Any melee champ should be built utilizing some degree of defensive itemization.

In noc's case this is effectively a combination of Frozen Mallet (optional), Guardian Angel, and Maw of Malmortius. Without some defenses NO MELEE can perform their job (excepting certain champs like Tryndamere).

Noc has a spellshield ability. Noc is an assassin. He doesn't need much. Though granted he is a bit clunky but he's very specialized. Melee assassins like eve and talon don't necessarily need to synergize with or even build defensive items. When they do usually theres something nice for them though it may be pricey.

Peligrad 11-26-2012 03:45 AM

Noc is a great jungler....there is no need to do anything to him.

He is a strong enough jungler where the jungle changes aren't going to hurt him much, his kit is still strong, he'll still get a lot of free MS and AD for fast clears. And his post 6 ganks are still going to be hard to stop...

There is no need to change him or anything about him...

In fact, he'll likely be a stronger jungler than he is now because his single target damage is so high and the fact his early ganks aren't as good won't be as much of an issue...

Noc, Udyr, Nunu, Fiddle, Rengar, and Xin will likely be the best junglers out there...

Summoner Smith 11-26-2012 08:45 AM

He is going to be an even better jungler.

Mr Confuse 11-26-2012 08:59 AM

all the buff his ultimate needs in my opinion is a decreased cooldown at early level and a range increase


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