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-   -   Kassadin item discussion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=28312)

Motas 11-23-2009 02:43 PM

Kassadin item discussion
 
I've been playing Kassadin for a really long time, he is my favorite hero by far. I've realized that he is versatile enough to have several different item builds to fit the situation. Here's what I have so far, plz let me know if you think some things could be better, or any other versions of Kassadin you've seen/played:

Carry: (DPS)
Berserker Greaves, Malady, Wit's End, Last Whisper, Phantom Dancer, Infinity Edge

Caster: (AP)
Sorcerer Shoes, Mejai Soulstealer, Archangel Staff, 3 Zonya's Rings

Anti-Caster: (MR)
Mercury Treads, Force of Nature, Guardian Angel, Banshee's Veil, Malady, Wit's End

Tank???

The Senate 11-23-2009 03:15 PM

I really wish Riot's 'notes' on Kassadin didn't suggest he could be an 'anti-caster' or a DPS carry.

No matter how much attack speed you get, Kassadin just doesn't drain mana fast enough for it to be viable. I've tested it, I've seen it happen, it just kinda sucks. Why? Because Riot doesn't believe that a mana-denial champion is fun to play against. Due to this, Kassadin's mana stealing properties are really only beneficial as a source of mana gain.

Then as far as DPS goes, he's lack luster there as well. His abilities are too expensive to allow a full bar of physical DPS items. There's no way you're going to be dynamic and effective unless you toss in a Chalice, and that's only going to delay your physical DPS. Not only that, it's weird. Why play Kassadin with those items, when you can much more easily do it with Jax and have much more globally beneficial skills?

In my opinion, you ALWAYS want to go for an AP/Tank Hybrid with Kassadin. Include items like Rod of Ages and Rylai's staff that increase your hurting power as a caster, and still give you massive survivability. As compared to people who play Glass Cannodin and go overboard with the AP, I always prefer to counterbalance my slightly lower hurting power with cheap heavy hitting AP items. Soulstealer and Void Staff are both good choices.

Edit: Check out my Kassadin guide. Not only does it have great explaination for my ideals as far as the champion goes, there's also some really awesome discussion and comments throughout the thread.

Zeppo 11-23-2009 03:26 PM

Hum, since Kassadin is my favorite hero, I tought I could share my build:

I start with tear of the goddess, then mercury boots, then magebane and since the game finish pretty fast in general I just have time to get Zhonya's ring

If the game continu probably that I would go for more AP or spell def/def depending on the ennemies

This build make him an amazing ganker, using magebane buff between each spells

Blarfles 11-23-2009 03:27 PM

I build intense glass cannon. Zhonya's, Mejai's, Sorc Boots, Lich Bane, Rod of the Abyss, and usually just an extra lucky pick that will turn into a random tank item. Then again I play mostly pubs.

Aregionius 11-23-2009 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Senate (Hozzászólás 312216)
No matter how much attack speed you get, Kassadin just doesn't drain mana fast enough for it to be viable. I've tested it, I've seen it happen, it just kinda sucks. Why? Because Riot doesn't believe that a mana-denial champion is fun to play against. Due to this, Kassadin's mana stealing properties are really only beneficial as a source of mana gain.

Neither confirming or denying this, just here's some theoretical numbers from a given scenario.

At level 18, fighting a full 3,000 mana Ryze with this build.

Open with silence, 3 second duration, 7 potential hits in 3 seconds.

Mana Drain - Recovery:
  • 150(192) – 300m
  • 140 (182) – 280m
  • 133(175) – 266m
  • 125(167) – 250m
  • 116(158) – 232m
  • 106(148) – 212m
  • 99(141) – 198m

Total

1163 mana drained – 1738 mana gained

340 dmg silence, 294 dmg Wit’s End, 986 base damage = 1620 dmg

with 40% armor and magic reduction

204 dmg silence, 294 dmg Wit’s, 592 base dmg = 1090 dmg

The Senate 11-23-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aregionius (Hozzászólás 312338)
Neither confirming or denying this, just here's some theoretical numbers from a given scenario.

Here's the issue with theory-craft like that.

You didn't calculate champion move speed into it, both yours and Ryze. Trust me, he's not going to stand still for three seconds, and then the math will get all convoluted in animation timing and game pathing.

When it gets down to it, it's much more worth it to kill somebody to keep them from casting then it is to deny them mana to keep them from casting.

Edit:
On that note, it's just easier to kill a champion then it is to kill their mana. It's easier to itemize it, any other champion in the game will be able to support you doing it, and it's just faster.

By that reason, Kassadin is MORE of anti-caster because of his silence then he is because of mana drain.

Motas 11-23-2009 04:56 PM

@The Senate-
So basically, you're telling me that Kassadin doesn't belong anywhere, he isn't a DPSer, he's not built well as a glass cannon, and he has no point as a tank, but rather as an AP/Tank Hybrid?

I personally think he's meant to fill any role needed to be filled by the team.

I'd really like it if he was turned into something like the anti mage from DotA.

Where do you think I could recommend that, along with some changes?

The Senate 11-23-2009 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motas (Hozzászólás 312536)
@The Senate-
So basically, you're telling me that Kassadin doesn't belong anywhere, he isn't a DPSer, he's not built well as a glass cannon, and he has no point as a tank, but rather as an AP/Tank Hybrid?

Yeah pretty much. Kassadin blurs the lines between traditional champion roles more then anybody else by far. Not only that, he really doesn't bring much to the table, especially when compared to other champions.

As far as high ELO players are concerned, Kassadin is just another pub stomper that loses viability in true competitive even-footed matches.

The niche for burst damage (as opposed to DPS) is very small in LoL. Kassadin is really the only champion who excells at burst damage and mobility, so he's honestly in a class of his own. The only champion who's even comparable to Kasssadin is Jax.

Vichar 11-23-2009 05:43 PM

Doesn't Tristana's rocket jump allow here to join that little family? Of course, I don't know what the cooldown on her rocketjump is.

Motas 11-23-2009 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Senate (Hozzászólás 312602)
The niche for burst damage (as opposed to DPS) is very small in LoL. Kassadin is really the only champion who excells at burst damage and mobility, so he's honestly in a class of his own. The only champion who's even comparable to Kasssadin is Jax.

So, if he isn't to be played AP/Tank, it would be DPS?

And I'm a little upset that a mana denial hero isn't welcomed in LoL


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