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-   -   [Help] Udyr :( (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=282260)

Fanatics 10-07-2010 10:12 PM

[Help] Udyr :(
 
So recently i just bought Udyr and I am both happy and sad. I can't find the right build/skills/masteries to help me out. I can jungle but i prefer not too because i sometimes dont trust 2v1 laners and yeaa.. (unless premeade) can someone help me with my build and skills for laning and jungling?

thanks!

~Fanatics

Covenant 10-07-2010 10:50 PM

I'll quote what I said in the other thread about jungling, with some info on laning:

When you're in a lane you'll be poked more, so you probably want Doran's Shield and a Red Potion or you want to start with a regeneration item. Pretty basic--try to avoid being hit much.

For Masteries in a Lane I'd probably go something like 1/17/12. Point in exhaust, better defenses, HP, dodge, and better mana regen. Not bad for Udyr. Runes, whatev, same as ever. Dodge, HP/level or Armor are all good choices for yellow, the rest are pretty obvious.

I'd start with a point in Phoenix, and tap it while I'm in fountain so it can regen the mana spent while I'm there. Phoenix level 1 will be a decent farming stance for you, better than the others you have the option of, and then I'd start levelling bear and turtle. Get turtle 2, then work on bear until bear 4, just like a jungler. Bear keeps you safe, helps you gank, and moves you around. Turtle is anti-harassment, but costs too much to spam. The health regen is crud for you in a lane because you want to last hit. Phoenix is better for last hitting because you can time your AoE hit to harass an enemy with.

First big item I'd go for is Catalyst. Helps you stay in lane longer, blue gem will save your life, and it'll build into Banshee's Veil. Then just follow a normal build order. If you're tanky, you want Randuin's Omen. If you're DPSy (bad idea, frankly) get Bloodrazor or Ghostblade or Wriggle's Lantern--which also has wards, which are sooo valuable.

Remember, even though you're not a jungler, unless your team HAS a jungler, you're good at it. Do not be afraid to ask your lanemate if they're okay, and then go kill some golems, wraiths, wolves, or even the Red Lizard. They'll gain a little extra gold and XP and your good Udyr skills won't go to waste entirely. Also is a good gank setup.

Once you hit 6 and have that spread I mentioned, work on Phoenix some more. The laning phase can last as long as level 5, so you should be able to get a really great farming stance set up, and solo-push lanes pretty well, letting your allies go shop or whatnot.

But Udyr is pretty wasted in a lane. Anything he does there Taric or Sion or Nasus does ten times as well. Jungling is where he really shines, because he's just such a great jungler. Phoenix won't be that great as a ganking stance for you either, so focus on Bear to keep the enemy from running and help your team secure the kill.

Quote:

Anyway, start at blue golem, then wolves, wraiths, red lizard, minigolems, gank bottom or mid. My teams usually yell for me to save them when I'm like level 2 or 3, which is pretty absurd, but hey, whatev, do what you can.

0/21/9 or 21/0/9, both are good, but 21 in defense is safer and easier. It's also saved my butt a few times.

For items I tend to go HoG first, Boots +3 next (love the speed), then Banshee's Veil, and then either Randuin's Omen (if I'm getting hit hard) or Phage (if I'm doing a lot of chasing).

I prefer Tiger because it's a better ganking tool. Just today a bunch of my allies were going "How did you do that?" when I'd kill someone after they'd run under their tower, not understanding how the Tiger DoT works. It's pretty effective, and I can get early kills with it, something Phoenix has a pretty hard time doing. That AoE is just no good--especially not with so many people using flash nowadays--and trying to make sure you get in 4 hits for the proc? Not worth the time.

If you're laning, however, Phoenix wins, hands down. Tiger's only advantage is blowing a lot of mana into up-front burst damage. That's good for ganks. Phoenix is a far superior overall tool for non-ganks.

But it's really up to you. Bear is your greatest asset, but I wait until level 4 to get it. Then I level it up until I Rank Four bear, then I work on Tiger and Turtle. Once you're confident you can leave turtle at 3 and make your last 5 levels be Phoenix. Phoenix>Tiger>Bear>Phoenix Stance Dance is great for buffing attacks, even if that AoE is pretty much entirely useless.

I've played against plenty of Phoenix Udyr and that thing never does anything to anyone.

Smellis 10-07-2010 11:08 PM

Udyr is a fun champion, HOWEVER he requires specific teams to be worth playing.

#1. Udyr is a jungler, he has no real harassment power early laning phase that doesn't put him in harms way and give up first blood to competent players. So first and foremost ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU HAVE SOMEONE WHO CAN HANDLE 2VS1. This isn't too hard, theres quite a few who can handle it champion wise but also needs the right player to do it.

#2. Tank udyr is superior udyr, he really shines when he can run into a team fight and stun 5 people one at a time and ensure runners cant get away. DPS udyr suffers because his only close in is bear stance and that only stuns for 1 second. Smart people know this and they will kite/cc you to death. Theres a reason xin/panth/yi/garen are all good phys dpsers, they have the tools to ensure someone is gonna die when they get in. Tank udyr is also not a main tank, unless you get super fed through assists/easy kills you will probably only have the durability to be in for a few seconds then get back out singling people out of the fight.

So basically, if your team has a tank such as rammus or an initiator such as amumu and you have someone who can handle 2vs1 with little to no assistance then you're good to go.

I've only ever laned with udyr once and it was just a horrible experience, likewise every udyr i've seen try to lane has failed at it. So i'll just give you jungling tips. First, read http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board....php?p=2155173 . If you really intend to play a jungler theres some good info and tips there.

Masteries you want to balance between prot/utility. Usually getting up to either dodge or the extra hp in prot then putting the rest into utility. Summoner spells, ghost/smite easy easy.

Items are where you have to think on your feet, theres no one set method of building him. Gotta look at your enemy team and see where their damage is gonna come from.

Typical starting items for jungle udyr are cloth armor + 5 hp pots. After that you want your madred's razor to help speed up jungling and let you kill dragon earlier. After you got your madred's and boots you have to look at the enemy team and decide what to build first. Phys heavy? get heart of gold and then build it into raduin's omen, caster heavy? banshee's veil. Other good general tank items are sunfire/Force of nature in case of either extremes. Basically build to counter their team is all i can tell ya.

Spell wise, turtle and phoenix will be what get you through the jungle the quickest. Getting an early point in bear will help your survival a little and give you a chance for early game ganking but shouldn't really be maxing it first. I'd say phoenix has more priority over turtle since the faster you kill the less damage you take.

Annnnnd lastly, I don't main udyr so don't take my words to heart all the way. I feel I have a good understanding of jungle tank udyr and where he works and where he doesn't but its up to you to decide if you really wanna play him. Also, check resources on the web for guides, mobafire has some good info that can give you an idea and youtube usually has some gameplay videos if you take the time to look for em.

All that said, if you get everything just right, tank udyr is probably the most fun i've had playing this game. He can distrupt a team fight so well and make anyone who even thinks about running away scream with rage. On top of all that hes really hard to kill if you're smart with turtle stance. Have fun.

Cenerae 10-08-2010 12:18 AM

Udyr has no lane presence, so really you're better off jungling with him. Unless you absolutely have nobody able/willing to take a 1v2 lane.

Supreme1337 10-08-2010 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cenerae (Hozzászólás 3329312)
Udyr has no lane presence, so really you're better off jungling with him. Unless you absolutely have nobody able/willing to take a 1v2 lane.

That is absolutely not true. Try maxing Bear and Turtle early game. That will give you a very short CD stun, with a speed boost for initiating, and you can use turtle to block all harassment, and then simply get all the mana back, with Turtle's passive mana-steal. That is extremely frustrating for the opponents in the lane if they can't land any harassment, and you can continually harass them with an essentially infinite mana pool (if you're low on mana make sure you end up in Turtle stance so you can regen it all back).

Covenant 10-08-2010 12:47 AM

That's what I tried to say in my post. Lane Udyr is not as bad as people say--he sucks, but only because there's so many better and he's so good in jungle.

But with a single point of phoenix for farming and tons of bear (I think bear is the best one to get to level 4 first) you can make any minor over-extension of the enemy into an opportunity for your lanemate to get in a whack or two. If you're laning with someone like Taric or Sion you'll also be able to dramatically multiply the time someone is left stunned. That kind of harassment is essential to setting up a gank for the jungler or capitalizing on an early mistake. Sion + Udyr at level 2 with their stuns can kill an unlucky 2v2 laner pretty easy.

That's also why getting him the increased mana regen is good. Stay in phoenix for farming, swap to bear at random intervals to control the melee zone, and let your ranged buddy own the bushes. Not bad at all. Well, not good, not compared to Garen or Xin or even Mundo... but hey, if you love Udyr but hate the jungle, you can still contribute. Please, though, build tanky. You're sooooo powerful that way.

Zyren 10-08-2010 12:53 AM

Summoner Spells
Smite/Ghost

Runes
Quints/Marks: Attack Speed
Seals: Dodge
Glyphs: Magic Resist per level

Masteries
0/21/9

Skill Build/Priority
Phoenix at 1, Turtle at 2, Bear at 4, Tiger at 8
Phoenix > Turtle > Bear > Tiger

Item Build
Cloth Armor + 5 HP Potions
First Trip Back: Boots 1, Wards, Maybe an HP Pot or 2
Heart of Gold
Mercury Treads
Randuin's Omen
Sunfire Cape/Banshee's Veil (order depending on enemy team comp, then get the other)
Build Situational Items depending on enemy and your own team comp. Such as: Thornmail/Force of Nature/More Sunfire Capes/Atma's Impaler/etc.

Get Wards whenever you have extra gold between getting items (or their components). Ward the enemy Lizard/Golem, and Dragon/Baron depending on the likeliness that they might be getting either (don't ward Baron generally as soon as he spawns or anything, unless it seems probable that they're actually going to try for it).

YUNGKOREA 10-08-2010 12:59 AM

Udyr wants to jungle :(
Hes the animal spirit, let his spirit do what it wants. It wants to go to the jungle and take other animals spirits. Udyr does not want to face champs prematurely. Udyr does not want to fight minions all day.

Udyr wants to jungle :(

Cenerae 10-08-2010 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supreme1337 (Hozzászólás 3329567)
That is absolutely not true. Try maxing Bear and Turtle early game. That will give you a very short CD stun, with a speed boost for initiating, and you can use turtle to block all harassment, and then simply get all the mana back, with Turtle's passive mana-steal. That is extremely frustrating for the opponents in the lane if they can't land any harassment, and you can continually harass them with an essentially infinite mana pool (if you're low on mana make sure you end up in Turtle stance so you can regen it all back).

Okay. You can sit in the lane and maybe farm if the enemy has poor harrass. Problem: Turtle stance doesn't block much damage, and in order to heal with it you have to be allowed to melee the minions. Having bear stance is nice, but it's relatively moot unless your laning partner can actually do something to your opponents.

If I ever see an Udyr in my lane as Sona, you can bet good money that I'm going to make you work hard for every single autoattack that isn't done while you hug your tower for fear of having your face bursted off. Many, many other champs in the game will also make a laning Udyr's life hell. Sure you may be able to stay in the lane, but are you really going to be able to farm effectively? I doubt it.

It's the same problem a laning Warwick has. Sure he's hard to get out of the lane with all his self healing, but he's very, very, very easy to harrass. And when you consider that both he and Udyr are excellent junglers, I can't see why you would even want to lane with them. A low tier equivalent would be Evelynn, who's stun is irrelevant because she has no damage to back it up (like Udyr with only bear/turtle stance and no items), only Eve has no lane staying power. But she too, is a competent jungler so would be better off there.


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