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-   -   Support Viktor: Blitzcrank on SlimFast. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2817318)

Haelstrom 11-19-2012 02:12 AM

Support Viktor: Blitzcrank on SlimFast.
 
Anyone tried this out?

Been running it with a friend in solo queue lately to dick around and it's been surprisingly very strong.

Basic rundown in case anyone's bored and wants to try it in normals or w/e.

R > W > E > Q (though you can rank Q more aggressively in certain situations)
[Cons]
-Non-sustain support.
-Relies on your ADC not being AFK. Prolly not good to use with a random unless you're confident in them, since the ADC needs good knowledge of when to abuse Gravity Well to farm and when to abuse it to harass. Confusing the two makes 0/17 Vayne.
-Power Transfer still sucks dick. I mean it doesn't hurt being used but its effectiveness goes Swoooooooosh
-Sexy.

[Pros]
-CDR capped augmented Gravity Well kicks ass.
-For that matter, Gravity Well bottom kicks ass.
-Lots of harass early lane.
-Still outputs decent damage with ult throughout game.
-Ult + low cd Gravity Well is highly obnoxious choke-point CC.
-Augment Gravity is perfect, heavily enhancing his suppart capabilities while giving him CDR, Mana, and a huge health regen pool. On top of Philo Stone and my manaholic setup above, he can spam endlessly, and it's barely more than he'd paid for HoG.
-Huge AoE team synergy.
-Srsly. Unless your team's like hard losing already, you're never losing dragon engagements.
__________________________

Almost always run Flash/Exhaust.

I typically run 1/9/20 mastery tree.

Offense, improved Exhaust is a must.

Defense, I take Hardiness and a point in Tough Skin > Durability + Veteran's Scars.

Utility, improved Flash, Expanded/Meditation, Swiftness 4 points, Greed > 1 point Wealth, and high Awareness/Sage to keep level relevant.

Runes, been running flat armor yellows, mana regen / 5 glyphs, gold per 10 quints, and flat armor reds to assure a squishy mage can survive the rigors of freezing lane and spamming Shift 4.
____________________________

Simple things to keep in mind.

-W is great as both actual CC, and as a zoning tool. Also applies to neutrals, can be cast over walls, fills entire jungle paths and is basically a super ultimate on an eventual 7.8s CD.
-His actual ult's silence is very powerful, and if the R is micromanaged, he can output some good additional damage for his team with it with no skill whatsoever.
-Laser gives vision. DIS IMPORTANT
-His laser, auto, and Q while not great burst, offers surprisingly decent poke with little to no AP and should be utilized whenever possible.
-SYNERGIZES SUPER HARD with AoE teams; if you have a Viktor support, Amumu jungle, and Kat mid, you're going to stomp solo queue scrubs so hard so fast.



Really nothing special to items. Whatever you typically start with (whether it's Charm / Sights + Vision / Potion or something else), you typically want to get Philo Stone + Boots ASAP, then Tabi / Augment: Gravity. Then expand situationally.

Warrrrax 11-19-2012 06:29 AM

Its an interesting idea, though the comparison to blitz is unfortunate since they are nothign alike.


The problem is that Viktor has so many AP ratios which go to waste. Granted so do all support champs, but neither his death ray nor power transfer really DO ANYTHING other than damage.

The mass stun is quite strong utility wise, and chaos storm deals pretty good damage even with no AP. But Im not sure its really enough. Is death ray really enough to justfy using him over say Lulu who also has a decent longrange poke? She certainly has more utility overall with better CC.

The AoE aspect is interesting though and I can see him being more useful in that regard with the aoe stun and storm, vs a Lulu or the like.

Great Pyrenees 11-19-2012 09:05 AM

Actually when I use a unconventional support like Victor I go strait AP and occasionally but wards as needed. Making bottom into a AP kill lane will allow you to farm kills for gold instead of stealing your adc's cs. It is totally viable and in Season 3 will be more normal.

niqht 11-19-2012 03:43 PM

I've messed with it a time or 2 but it takes some serious teammate understanding.
If you miss the stun you tend to die...

And much of that as a kill lane is in the same vein as Karma, only everyone hates her. I get the adc many kills as karma. If you are willing to risk the lack of HP for the AP then you can really hurt people early game and Karma can be rather difficult to kill in 1v1/2v1 standoffs.

And an FYI in case you didn't know, Augment now has a 3rd tier coming...

Teleclast 11-19-2012 07:37 PM

I'd imagine amumu jungle ult, Orianna to get them closer to center and Viktor for his mini amumu stun would actually be some quite nice cc as well. I've heard a friend say he was going to try this, so thanks for the info I will send it to him.

Haelstrom 11-20-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrrrax (Hozzászólás 31596609)
Its an interesting idea, though the comparison to blitz is unfortunate since they are nothign alike.

I fail to see how.

Full Machine Viktor is blatantly a body-adapted version of Blitzcrank. Since Viktor was Blitz' creator, it is very blatant where the reference comes from.

And he is much thinner.

Quote:

The problem is that Viktor has so many AP ratios which go to waste. Granted so do all support champs, but neither his death ray nor power transfer really DO ANYTHING other than damage.
Death Ray grants vision, and has pretty decent base early on. The real bottleneck's Power Transfer, and I agree -- but typically with "actual" Viktor, PT's an early game move at best anyway, and here, you're more focused on landing proper Wells so your ADC can get free farm/harass.

Quote:

The mass stun is quite strong utility wise, and chaos storm deals pretty good damage even with no AP. But Im not sure its really enough. Is death ray really enough to justfy using him over say Lulu who also has a decent longrange poke? She certainly has more utility overall with better CC.
I disagree on better CC. Better single target CC perhaps, but Viktor's very low CD constant ranged AoE CC with a larger covered area that doesn't require a unit targeted to be applied, meaning you can seal off locations, zone, etc. with it.

Yes, I do feel Viktor's Gravity Well is stronger overall chokepoint CC than Lulu's entire ultimate. =P The fact he also has a ranged AoE silence is icing on the cake. However, she definitely offers more utility + poke.

Quote:

The AoE aspect is interesting though and I can see him being more useful in that regard with the aoe stun and storm, vs a Lulu or the like.
His real strength comes into play soon as Augment Gravity comes into play, since again, it makes dragon fights a nightmare (and gets much worse as teamfight phase comes.)

_______________________________

In general build terms, still playing around with him. Must see what else is doable; S3 will be interesting for true testing.

Warrrrax 11-20-2012 10:20 AM

I gotcha. I was thinking Blitz/Viktor from a gameplay perspective where they are significantly different. But you are referring to the lore and general robotness. Fair nuff.

The Magus 11-20-2012 11:19 AM

I won't knock it without trying it. Viktor's a fun champ mid, and as someone who enjoys supporting this idea sounds like it could actually be alot of fun ;) Perhaps I also like justifying another augment other than death, no matter how :P

Itemizing seems difficult though. You'll REALLY want that augment: gravity, and getting the gold as a support ontop of wards and your early boots/philo/kage's(?) is going to be tough if the lane isn't going well.

You may underestimate his Q, though. Alot of good supports have good pokes, and without AP or augment: death, I'd imagine the laser is just too mana inefficient to remain a good poke? The utility of the vision and range would be nice, but I imagine having favorable poke exchanges with his dirt cheap Q would make him a great harasser in bot lane.

ThorHammerz 11-20-2012 12:26 PM

Interesting... worth giving it a shot :D.

What ADC's do you consider to synergize best with Viktor when he's support? What opposing ADCs and/or supports do you think he does well against, and doesn't do so well against? (I can see blitzcrank is going to be a nightmare, since getting pulled = instagibbed before your gravity well has time to stun them).

Haelstrom 11-21-2012 10:31 AM

Might try a higher emphasis on Q just to see if that's valid.

And far as picks go-

I've noticed I have a higher success rate with Caitlyn, Varus, Draven, and Tristana. So either high range ADCs, or ranged ADCs with very powerful poke / potential burst damage tend to do well with this, again of what I've seen; I'll need to do a lot more games before I have a guarantee on that. Not done well with any Ezreal ever, though that might be for .. other reasons.

Enemy wise.. Blitzcrank was surprisingly not much of a threat. Proper warding / positioning means you can basically assume where his Rocket Grab origin will be, and since he's locked into the animation for a moment, you're very likely going to stun him + a well meaning enemy ADC. Tends to bait them if anything.

For that matter, sustain supports I've done very strongly against. Sona/Soraka have been very easy to deal with. Taric faired better than the above but was surprisingly easy to deal with; long animation on Dazzle, near melee range on W + R, and some Taric's desire to get in an occasional auto for his passive really hurt him in that match up. He can't zone your ADC or be aggressive at all like he normally could.

Leona however, has been quite troublesome every time I've gone against her. MIGHT'VE BEEN THE PULSEFIRE EZ I was supporting both times, but I'm thinking she's possibly a strong counter.

Enemy ADC... Graves has been really easy, his Dash typically gets him stunned right on the edge of Well due to how it works. Ezreal was no real issue, he won't get caught much but it's easy to zone him or bait him into bad engages. Didn't have too much trouble with Ashe, and really, any ADC who stops to poke with a skill tends to be easy picking for me in solo queue at least.

Jungler wise, pretty much as simple as this. Most melee junglers, due to my Exhaust, Well, Ult, are hilariously easy to diffuse, even the ones that have large gap closers (I just have to not get baited into Welling at a distance, like with a Xin Zhao jungle, since he'll dash out of Well to my ADC before it stuns). But, there are exceptions. Olaf does not care about Support Viktor, at all. lol

Caster type junglers are hit or miss. Doesn't seem too effective at stopping an Amumu jungle, period. I have to hope I'm reaaaaally responsive with that R.

Far as working with junglers goes, Amumu's a godly pick. There's no point in the game Amumu Ult > Gravity Well > Viktor Ult (or different order as situation calls) isn't powerful as all hell, and it's kind of mindless to execute so I don't really need to worry about much coordination with a random. So he's kind of my favorite jungler to see in game. Strong red buff applicants / chasers are also great, since if I can catch an enemy with Gravity Well once, they're probably done like dinner. (And even if I can't, sometimes cutting off an escape route'll make them blow a Flash waaaaay early and that'll cost them their life.)

In an ideal world, I'd like to see comps with lots of AoE + disables. Amumu jungle Naut or Nunu jungle, Katarina mid, and if we have a strong AD presence jungle, a tanky AP top like Rumble, Swain, etc. The more Hit R to Win moments, the more results I tend to see against the incompetence of solo queue.


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