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-   -   Creeping Guide?? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2802731)

Samurai Dan 11-15-2012 02:18 PM

Creeping Guide??
 
Does anyone know of a good in depth guide to creeping?

lolz last hit bro doesn't help

Samurai Dan 11-15-2012 04:02 PM

Seriously, no one knows of any good creeping guides?
How about general tips? Other than simply last hitting.

TeknoWizard 11-15-2012 04:09 PM

I'm fairly sure "creeping" isn't a term, and that's why people aren't helping...

And there isn't much to "farming", as I think that's what you mean, than just last hitting. It's one of those things you just gotta learn. Annie is a good champion to learn to last hit with. You can use her Q to last hit, and it will refund mana if you kill with it.

Samurai Dan 11-15-2012 04:47 PM

What I am referring to is out csing your opponent. I know how to last hit that's not the problem. I know how many tower hits a minion can take and how to keep the tower from taking them. I would say I have about a 70-80% creep score in bot lane. This is not acceptable to me.

Things I'm looking for:
When to push.
When to let them push.
Positioning.
How to zone the other player out without sacrificing cs.
How to keep from getting zoned.
How to harass without sacrificing cs.
How to keep from getting harassed while maintaining cs.
How to lock minion waves in place.
When to hit minions multiple times.
ETC.

When I say creeping in my mind I'm thinking about a mini game within the game. Optimize your cs, while zoning and harassing the enemy and eventually winning the lane.

Btw, I am referring mainly to AD bot.

Great Pyrenees 11-15-2012 05:44 PM

Well its the new Asian Meta which is OP so I say zone asap, destroy tower asap this way if a lane is loosing jungle can focus that lane. As a support I typically wear down minions so we can push faster. All of this will change in S3 but it is the current FOTM. It really comes down to your own style if your Diamond then dont worry about it if your in Elo Hell then try to make slow improvements. Not everyone will be able to pull 10cs per min.

Lethadind 11-15-2012 05:58 PM

All of your questions are based entirely on what champion you are playing. Even ADC bot has different laning strategies for each champion. Graves for instance is sort of a bully in lane, and can be a bit more aggressive with farming entire waves with buckshot (as long as the jungler isn't near), so that the tower can eat some of their cs, while Vayne sits back and farms one minion at a time. Ezreal is incredibly efficient at farming under the tower while Kog'Maw has a much harder time. Again, Ezreal and Graves are incredibly efficient at farming under their tower, while Vayne has a much harder time doing so.

In terms of other lanes, it's entirely dependent on what champion, as mid and top lanes vary even more (much more) than ADC bot does.

In a general sense you want to poke with abilities and farm with auto-attacks, and this usually applies to any lane (except for champions like Annie or mana-less champs that can ability farm without losing sustainability). An efficient way to zone is to establish dominance in the beginning by bursting them off the bat (especially if you have a great support for either locking them down for a few seconds (Taric/Alistar) or a support that bursts with you (Sona) ), and then keeping them away by trading poke. If they start at 50% health (or 1 health potion down) during a poke war they're going to lose it.

However, it is the job of the support to zone, not the ADC. The ADC helps, but his primary responsibility is to farm every last minion. Don't sacrifice cs to zone.

You "lock minions in place" (it's called "freezing the lane") by allowing them to hit either you or the support while pulling them slowly back to your tower, but out of range of it. This pulls the minion wave further to your side. You want the enemy minion count to always stay a few minions higher than your own wave, so you basically let them duke it out (the enemy minion wave should still beat your wave even if you take the last hits, if there are at least 3 extra minions on their side), once your minions are dead you tank the remaining minions without killing them until the new waves arrive.

You can start a frozen wave by "leading" the first wave (giving the enemy minions vision of you before they gain vision of your minions) to you in such a way that the melee minions will all hit ONE of your minions while YOUR three melee minions end up on different targets. Focused fire pulls the wave in your direction.

You hit minions multiple times for two reasons: One is to push to their tower so you can go back to base, roam, go to dragon, or help counter-counter-jungle. The other is to stop a massive push toward your tower so that you don't miss cs. Also a large enemy minion count allows your lane opponent to win trades because 10 minions on you hurts a lot more than 3 minions on him, especially at the early levels.

And the term is "Laning" then, not "creeping." Laning encompasses all of what you just said, including when to roam.

Also I highly doubt you hit 80% of your cs, few people ever do. 80% is about 200 cs at 20 minutes. Name the last time you hit that and you'll realize it was "when you passed gold rank elo." If you're asking for advice on laning then I highly doubt you're there. I'm not insulting you with this statement, what I'm saying is that you think you are hitting all of your cs when in fact you likely aren't, and should probably try to improve on it even further.

If you have any other questions there are likely people better equipped to help you. My Elo isn't extraordinarily high, but this is my experience and understanding, after having spent a lot of time on these forums.

Samurai Dan 11-15-2012 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lethadind (Hozzászólás 31462602)
All of your questions are based entirely on what champion you are playing. Even ADC bot has different laning strategies for each champion. Graves for instance is sort of a bully in lane, and can be a bit more aggressive with farming entire waves with buckshot (as long as the jungler isn't near), so that the tower can eat some of their cs, while Vayne sits back and farms one minion at a time. Ezreal is incredibly efficient at farming under the tower while Kog'Maw has a much harder time. Again, Ezreal and Graves are incredibly efficient at farming under their tower, while Vayne has a much harder time doing so.

In terms of other lanes, it's entirely dependent on what champion, as mid and top lanes vary even more (much more) than ADC bot does.

In a general sense you want to poke with abilities and farm with auto-attacks, and this usually applies to any lane (except for champions like Annie or mana-less champs that can ability farm without losing sustainability). An efficient way to zone is to establish dominance in the beginning by bursting them off the bat (especially if you have a great support for either locking them down for a few seconds (Taric/Alistar) or a support that bursts with you (Sona) ), and then keeping them away by trading poke. If they start at 50% health (or 1 health potion down) during a poke war they're going to lose it.

However, it is the job of the support to zone, not the ADC. The ADC helps, but his primary responsibility is to farm every last minion. Don't sacrifice cs to zone.

You "lock minions in place" (it's called "freezing the lane") by allowing them to hit either you or the support while pulling them slowly back to your tower, but out of range of it. This pulls the minion wave further to your side. You want the enemy minion count to always stay a few minions higher than your own wave, so you basically let them duke it out (the enemy minion wave should still beat your wave even if you take the last hits, if there are at least 3 extra minions on their side), once your minions are dead you tank the remaining minions without killing them until the new waves arrive.

You can start a frozen wave by "leading" the first wave (giving the enemy minions vision of you before they gain vision of your minions) to you in such a way that the melee minions will all hit ONE of your minions while YOUR three melee minions end up on different targets. Focused fire pulls the wave in your direction.

You hit minions multiple times for two reasons: One is to push to their tower so you can go back to base, roam, go to dragon, or help counter-counter-jungle. The other is to stop a massive push toward your tower so that you don't miss cs. Also a large enemy minion count allows your lane opponent to win trades because 10 minions on you hurts a lot more than 3 minions on him, especially at the early levels.

And the term is "Laning" then, not "creeping." Laning encompasses all of what you just said, including when to roam.

Also I highly doubt you hit 80% of your cs, few people ever do. 80% is about 200 cs at 20 minutes. Name the last time you hit that and you'll realize it was "when you passed gold rank elo." If you're asking for advice on laning then I highly doubt you're there. I'm not insulting you with this statement, what I'm saying is that you think you are hitting all of your cs when in fact you likely aren't, and should probably try to improve on it even further.

If you have any other questions there are likely people better equipped to help you. My Elo isn't extraordinarily high, but this is my experience and understanding, after having spent a lot of time on these forums.

Thank you. This helps a great deal. I suppose I may overestimate my percentages. I would say by 20 minutes I'm sitting around 140-160cs (in a game in which I feel I am doing well), definitely not 200 cs. If I don't hit at least 125 cs by 20 minutes things are not going in my favor.

ExecutionerK 11-15-2012 06:45 PM

Worth mentioning: After you pass gold elo, no matter how important CSing is, you will find yourself having the need to roam much more than farm.

As a result, even by 20 minutes you will rarely hit that 200cs due to the huge amount of roaming that you are doing for the team, but that is usually a good thing to be done on most mid and top champions.

For example, during my season 2 games, my average CS on Kennen, Anivia, Vayne, Nidalee and Cassiopeia is about 160 - 180. None of them pass the 200, even though many of the games may last at least 30 minutes. This is due to the fact that I do not afk farm and often leave my lane due to fights or objectives.
* I had over 60% win rate on all the champions that I have listed, 71% on Anivia, 73% on Nidalee, 61% on Kennen, 60% on Vayne, 69% on Cassiopeia


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