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-   -   Jungle Help. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2797975)

Ikoozdog 11-14-2012 05:27 AM

Jungle Help.
 
Hey, Names Ikooz, I am a lvl 30 summoner who's never really jungled. Ive tried jungling twice once as trundle and again as shyvana, and I failed horribly at it. I dont get WHEN to gank, what to look for, or understand counter jungling. ANY and ALL info you can give me on jungling that would help would be greatly appreciated, need to diversify my playing strats, thank you.

Also, any junglers you would suggest.

Maleric 11-14-2012 05:53 AM

Map awareness is key.

Counter Jungling:
If you can see everyone, the enemy jungle is open to invasion. How safe it is depends on how quickly you can clear, your objective, and whether or not you can duel.

Also, if you are aware, and know that the enemy top laner just went back to heal and their jungle is covering top lane, and you can see everyone else, their jungle is wide open.

Another thing thing to learn is how certain champions clear and their strengths and weaknesses. For example, you're Shyvana and the enemy jungle is Shen. Shyvana has insane clear times. Shen is slow as hell in the jungle. So, once you've cleared your jungle as shyvana, chances are shen is still making his way through his slowly. Hell he might not even have both buffs yet. Being shyvana, you can get in and out quick and should be able to duel shen. So you can confidently enter his jungle see where he is, engage, or clear another camp he hasn't gotten to yet, and then leave. Also, this is where map awareness comes into play again. Watch where the enemy laners are. If they suddenly dissappear form lane, it's time to use Shyvana's speed and gtfo. They're coming for you.

However, another example, if you're Shyvana vs Skarner, who also has insane clear times and is a decent duelist, you're probably not gonna wanna risk entering his jungle. He has a perma-slow just about and there will probably not be anything you can steal early to hinder him.

Ganking
As far as ganking goes, the main thing to look at and be aware of is the status of each lane.

Is one of your lanes pushed and the enemies in that lane weakend? Gank.
Is one of your lanes pushed to the enemy tower and the enemy defending at low health? Gank (This involves Tower Diving to secure the kill so is a little advanced)
Is one of your lanes receiving a lot of pressure from their opponent and/or the jungle? Show up and put the hurt on them and show them why they shouldn't screw with your allies.

All of this involves map awareness.

Basically jungling comes down to a few things: Map Awareness, Relieving Pressure, Securing Kills, and Disrupting all while farming your jungle, taking dragon, and possibly invading your opponent (the enemy jungler).


Suggested Champions
Really there are lots of jungle champions out there that fit for different roles and depend on your team comp.

Some Champions I like are:
Skarner,
Kayle,
Maokai,
Shyvana,
Udyr,
Jax,
Malphite

Udyr is a great champion to learn how to jungle on and is a strongly recommended first jungle champion as you get your learning curve out of the way and he teaches you everything you need for the jungle to be effective.

Trundle is also a champion I've seen in the jungle that a lot of people like.

I would recommend waiting till the new jungle changes are implemented before I put any IP or RP into jungle champions though as the entire jungle is changing for season 3.

Ikoozdog 11-14-2012 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maleric (Hozzászólás 31403713)
Map awareness is key.

Counter Jungling:
If you can see everyone, the enemy jungle is open to invasion. How safe it is depends on how quickly you can clear, your objective, and whether or not you can duel.

Also, if you are aware, and know that the enemy top laner just went back to heal and their jungle is covering top lane, and you can see everyone else, their jungle is wide open.

Another thing thing to learn is how certain champions clear and their strengths and weaknesses. For example, you're Shyvana and the enemy jungle is Shen. Shyvana has insane clear times. Shen is slow as hell in the jungle. So, once you've cleared your jungle as shyvana, chances are shen is still making his way through his slowly. Hell he might not even have both buffs yet. Being shyvana, you can get in and out quick and should be able to duel shen. So you can confidently enter his jungle see where he is, engage, or clear another camp he hasn't gotten to yet, and then leave. Also, this is where map awareness comes into play again. Watch where the enemy laners are. If they suddenly dissappear form lane, it's time to use Shyvana's speed and gtfo. They're coming for you.

However, another example, if you're Shyvana vs Skarner, who also has insane clear times and is a decent duelist, you're probably not gonna wanna risk entering his jungle. He has a perma-slow just about and there will probably not be anything you can steal early to hinder him.

Ganking
As far as ganking goes, the main thing to look at and be aware of is the status of each lane.

Is one of your lanes pushed and the enemies in that lane weakend? Gank.
Is one of your lanes pushed to the enemy tower and the enemy defending at low health? Gank (This involves Tower Diving to secure the kill so is a little advanced)
Is one of your lanes receiving a lot of pressure from their opponent and/or the jungle? Show up and put the hurt on them and show them why they shouldn't screw with your allies.

All of this involves map awareness.

Basically jungling comes down to a few things: Map Awareness, Relieving Pressure, Securing Kills, and Disrupting all while farming your jungle, taking dragon, and possibly invading your opponent (the enemy jungler).


Suggested Champions
Really there are lots of jungle champions out there that fit for different roles and depend on your team comp.

Some Champions I like are:
Skarner,
Kayle,
Maokai,
Shyvana,
Udyr,
Jax,
Malphite

Udyr is a great champion to learn how to jungle on and is a strongly recommended first jungle champion as you get your learning curve out of the way and he teaches you everything you need for the jungle to be effective.

Trundle is also a champion I've seen in the jungle that a lot of people like.

I would recommend waiting till the new jungle changes are implemented before I put any IP or RP into jungle champions though as the entire jungle is changing for season 3.

Wow, that explains alot, and reading it it's like (facepalm) duh. And I think your'e right about waiting, If anything I'll focus on shyv before I find another I may like. Thank you.

WCDireWolf 11-14-2012 06:25 AM

One thing that I've seen a lot of junglers doing is not donating their buffs.

i.e. As Shyvana, you won't need blue. While the first one is good for the exp/etc. If you're keeping up, you should give it to your mid usually. As Maokai, red doesn't help much, so you can donate it to top or adc (assuming they're around). Don't donate so much that you're gimped, but it can help your lane win their lane.

Danabis 11-14-2012 06:06 PM

My advice isn't that great for ranked probably, but I swear I carry normals. I'm level 30 and I trained to level thirty playing only against bots until two months ago when I started normals. I now have 60 wins and they're almost all with Nocturne.

My idea of jungling on normals with the people I end up against is this:

Rule 1:

Never take cloth and pots. If your champ can't start boots and pots then pick another champion.

Rule 2:

Start red and gank bot or start blue and gank top. You will be level 2, they will be level 1; this is inevitable. It is your time to hit things.

Rule 3:

If your champion (Sejuani, Malphite, Warwick) can't gank well before level 6, then choose a different champion. Nocturne, Shaco, and Lee Sin can gank at level two and so they benefit fully from the strategy of Rule 2.

Rule 4:

First blue buff and only first blue buff is yours. After that you set it up for the AP carry the second it becomes available and you only take it if you fear your enemy might take it.

Rule 5:

Counterjungling shmounterjungling. Sure, there are opportunities to cripple your opponent's jungle, but in the end all that's going to matter is the ganks. Be killing his teammates while he's hitting wraiths, not trying to steal a red buff.


That is my entire philosophy on jungling, without getting into wards, dragon, and baron, which you kinda have to learn on your own. It might not sound brilliant, but it works so well that Riot is changing the game so that the level 2 gank is no longer viable; it works.

I don't recommend that a person who is new to jungling start off with a champion like Malphite or Rammus; clearing is too slow and boring, and late game strategies are hard to implement in the 'normal' environment where people aren't likely to comply with you not ganking until level 6 or needing a superman leash. Your jungler has to be prepared to clear on his own, survive on his own, and win lanes with kickass ganks so that your teammates (whoever is playing best) can snowball.

These are my newbish thoughts, which are yet filled with wisdom!

WCDireWolf 11-15-2012 04:20 AM

Danabis, while your rules are very good for the more aggressive junglers, the support/tanky junglers just lose way too much on a level 2 gank.

Maokai, for example, will hamper his jungle pretty badly if he doesn't get that kill/assist at 2, and is much safer going at 4.

Shyvana in return is much better taking her own jungle and the enemy jungle, and only popping out to gank for a lane that has a lot of CC or if the enemy is extremely overpushed, or you can dive on them.

Cloth 5 is good for learning the jungle, as its the safest option, though the boots help a lot with clear and ganks.

I prefer wolves -> Blue or wraiths -> red as with help, you don't take much damage, and that extra little boost to exp and gold is nice.

Blue buff is very situational. If you *can* donate it and they use it, then of course donate it. But if you're behind levels due to failed ganks/invades, you can't really afford to donate without falling behind even harder.

Counter jungling works because it prevents the enemy jungle from being able to gank. As Shyvana, for example, if you can catch Shaco early, you can shut him out of the game completely, and force his team to come at you in the jungle (helping your lanes) unless they want a 4v5 the entire game.

And finally a little bit of my thoughts about ganking. While its good to gank the lane that's winning, don't focus exclusively on them. Chances are, the lane that is *losing* needs you more. Of course, if they're losing *that* badly, there's not a whole lot that you can do for them, then try to get another lane fed and pray that they don't keep feeding that much. Additionally, just because you didn't get a kill, doesn't mean the gank failed. A burned summoners is great, and even just making them feel the pressure is good too.

One more thing, if you do manage to get their flash out, make sure you head back to that lane to capitalize before flash comes off CD.

DDP SelfhighFive 11-15-2012 04:41 AM

I agree with most of the above. Just a couple additions; ganking too often can leave you seriously under leveled. Make them swift and painful. Ganks are still successful even without a kill. IE; burning their flash or backing them out the lane. Doing so can cripple the enemy ,while allowing you to not waste too much time taking allys exp or sacrificing your own. Lastly choose a champ that can bring something to teamfights . You aren't going to be in the jungle the entire game. And the diff between an eve or maokai in tf is huge.

Ikoozdog 11-15-2012 05:48 AM

one more thing, about warding, any run of the mill guide out there usually has a "where to ward" section, any place i should mainly watch for? and what about warding their jungle, viable? when do i do it? where do i watch? Sorry if these are noob questions, I just really want to break out into jungle with as much info as possible.

WCDireWolf 11-15-2012 05:52 AM

Warding is good on both wraith camps, on both blues, and in the river if your lanes aren't warding. Only invade their jungle if a) You can beat them quickly before the other lanes collapse on you, b) You know they're not there. i.e. they're ganking a lane, or c) You can get in/out fast with escapes or good clear speed.

You ward Wraiths because they're worth a lot and taken a lot and easy to kill, with the advantage of its a very nice crossroad that can watch quite a bit. Same for Blue. And on a side note, its every lane's job to ward, not just support, not just jungler. Everybody.

Little more advice. GP5s are very good for junglers, as you'll fall behind in gold usually unless your team is doing very well and you're ganking/invading very well.

Jesot 11-15-2012 06:58 AM

You mostly just need to ward the entrances. I'd everyone else us warding what they're supposed to ward, you should be good.


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