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League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Tribunal Ban Inquiries (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   @Lyte, I'd enjoy the game more if your standards for behavior were relaxed a bit. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2794484)

Futurecat 11-13-2012 12:22 PM

@Lyte, I'd enjoy the game more if your standards for behavior were relaxed a bit.
 
All the Tribunal zealots seem a bit extreme to me.

I'm an adult. I can handle it when someone gets baited by trolls and loses their cool. Sure, I don't like the negativity and rage that happens in these cases, but I understand it. I don't think they need to be banned. (But by all means, ban the baiters/trolls).

Someone does something stupid and gets called on it by a frustrated teammate? Yeah I don't like it when it happens to me but I get it. I understand why they'd be frustrated. I'm a big boy. I can handle someone calling me on my mistakes.

See where I'm going with this?

Today it feels like if you call someone a "jerk" or a "moron", even in the context of being verbally abused by them, or if you have a bad lane and go 0/4, you get a million "OMG YOU VIOLATED THE SUMMONERS CODE PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH PUNISH" votes. I understand the rules of the game, and I can modify my behavior to toe the line. But I'd enjoy the game more if I wasn't constantly feeling like the slightest misstep will land me in tribunal.

You're the leader here. You set the tone. And right now, you've created a culture of paranoia, suspicion, "rules lawyering," and zealotry. I'd have more fun if things were a little more mature, if people could be expected to have a slightly thicker skin around here.

Am I alone?

Blaster 11-13-2012 12:25 PM

You are not alone my brother.

Gòdlikè 11-13-2012 12:30 PM

Although I agree, some of us are mature enough to handle it. Heck, I can get into a heated argument with anyone if I wanted. But here's the problem. When you burn someone. They look for ways to burn you back. And that ruins the game for everyone.

True example: Me (Elise). Ryze (bot support)

When I do my golems like at level 3, I am about to finish my last hit on it. When he runs along, kills it. Runs away, and says nothing. All I say is Ryze! Nothing happens. Later losing his lane, he calls on me. Can you come gank bot. I say "Can't, need to level since you stole my golems". He gets so angry, he says **** YOU ******, and proceeds to take my big minions the rest of the game in my jungle and waits till I clear the weak ones so he can re-clear the big minions. Also, he joined no team fight. When the team said they would report he proceeds to say, I have 5 accounts. I don't care. And neither did I for myself really, but my team lost.

Was it my fault? nah, I said something harmless. But imagine if I had said "**** you ryze" when he stole my golem. He would of lost it and done it earlier. Some people can't handle it, and I'd rather lose because we weren't as good than the other team than someone who decided to troll/toss game/etc.

That's my 2 cents at least.

So many edits >.<

Grann Brigitte 11-13-2012 12:32 PM

Well, the thing is, there is no perfect system. The tribunal does work, even though it has not-insignificant collateral damage.

Personally, I would completely rework the criteria for verbal abuse being reportable- at the moment, the number of frivolous cases related to this is completely unacceptable. Players are using the report function as a petty stab at anyone who offended them in any way, and often even if they themselves are in breach of the code. I would also have punishment votes be PREREQUISITED with an effort to palliate the situation from the reporting individual. If players believe an individual should be punished, they should at the very least be willing to take one small extra step to avoid the need to submit a report. If players could say ''sorry'' as often as they said ''REPORTED'', the system would have a lot less issues with verbal abuse reports.

My favored proposed change is that the reporting player must also be evaluated in the case, and has equal opportunity to be punished for abusing the report function. Suddenly, reporting is not something people will do simply because it is a free option. Not only will they be evaluated on the quality of the report, but their own actions in the game- if they are found in breach, they may also be punished.

You cannot ask players of a game which caters largely to teenage males to be mature, to take insults in stride, etc. You can, however, disincentivize the current vindictive nature of the system. The tribunal system is supposed to cause player reform through punishment and warning, not function as the go to ''middle-finger'' of the game.

Ayrennar 11-13-2012 12:34 PM

If you call someone sexy in the military you can lose your career if they take it offensively. People are so sensitive these days.

Futurecat 11-13-2012 12:34 PM

The thing is, people like *that* should absolutely be banned, no question.

But consider in your story if you had said something like "Ryze, don't be a jerk, I need the golems for xp". If you got reported, you'd get *lots* of "punish" votes for that.

This whole "toxicity" thing is starting to feel more and more like a witch hunt.

2pudge1cup 11-13-2012 12:35 PM

you aren't alone at all.

im one of those people kinda in the middle of this whole thing. on one hand i dont want people who are constantly all caps'ing and calling someone out for a mistake that happened 10-15 minutes ago. hell, id even settle for people who if they don't get their preferred role they don't just completely ruin the game intentionally. on the other hand i dont want to see bans for trivial things.

it seems like it's difficult or even impossible to reach a happy medium given the system. the summoner's code is so ambiguous. what constitutes punishable vs non-punishable is such a blurred line that i really doubt most players could even tell you aside from a hypothetical case by case basis.

Futurecat 11-13-2012 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grann Brigitte (Hozzszls 31369358)
You can, however, disincentivize the current vindictive nature of the system. The tribunal system is supposed to cause player reform through punishment and warning, not function as the go to ''middle-finger'' of the game.

Could not agree more, +1.

I recently got a warning from Tribunal for telling my support to "stfu you moron" after he spammed /all chat with "This Graves" "Omg I can't believe I have to lane with randoms like this" etc. It was completely clear and obvious he was harassing me, but I lost my cool, called him a name and BAM - Tribunal "punish". I even apologized for it at the end of the in-game chat log. No dice.

I didn't bother reporting him, but you can bet he reported me. One tribunal "punish" spam later and I get a warning.

Cases like mine are frustratingly common.

(Here's my reform card if you're interested http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribun.../5901680/#nogo)

Taikero 11-13-2012 12:40 PM

If you sit there arguing with another teammate, you two having your little argument is disenfranchising 8 other people from having a competitive game.

Focus on the game and then if you two want to duke it out in the post-game lobby, fine. Just don't start a pissy little argument while the rest of us are trying to win.

This is why I punish those who can't deflect an argument, because there is a time and place for a good debate (and I love debates), but in the middle of a competitive game is not the right time.

You don't see basketball players stopping in the middle of the court to discuss the validity of the last referee call in the middle of the game while the clock is running. You can give your teammates the same courtesy in League.

CaptainAMorgan 11-13-2012 12:40 PM

You are not alone

But the zealots are more vocal so it seems like you are...

This community reminds me of Islam (at least I hope it's this way).

The 10% of extremists make the 90% crazy/look bad because 10% of the whole happens to be A LOT of people anywhere else.

Basically, there are not "that many" people who troll here (the hypothetical 10%), but "that many" people when you're talking into he millions, turns out to be in the hundred thousands.

O.o


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