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-   -   So what's the K/D/A ratio to constitute "Intentional Feeding"? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2794030)

Ginga 11-13-2012 11:01 AM

So what's the K/D/A ratio to constitute "Intentional Feeding"?
 
Genuinely curious here.

For example, if you're doing REALLY **** due to getting camped, playing a 4v5, and your attempts to save your allies only resulted in even more deaths and no assists because your Allies either ran off or were killed subsequently.You end up anti-snowballing.


Like how much worse do you have to do compared to your allies to constitute as Intentional Feeding? What if some of your teammates just sat in the fountain when the base was under attack and you died multiple times trying to delay the inevitable, but ultimately furthered your score gap?


Is there a solid threshold? I'm questioning whether there was a certain K/D/A ratio threshold so next time I get really close to that threshold, I just do what my allies did instead of defending the base to see how much longer I can keep the Nexus alive, it'd be less fun, but my death count would have been 2 less.

PS -

My score was 0/10/2 solo top

The next worse was 0/5/0 AP mid (he went AFK afterwards)

The next worse was 2/7/4 AD bot

Tbird 11-13-2012 11:07 AM

I try not to base it off of the score if I can help it. The first thing I look for is some kind of comment like "mid or feed" or something about threatening to feed if someone doesn't do something. Then I try to see if I can tell if the players are closer to lvl 30 or lower lvl. If no one has higher lvl summoner spells I assume it is probably a low level game and am very unlikely to punish. I would hate to punish someone new that just has no idea what is going on yet. If they are high level then I look at items and if they seem to be trying at all. If all of these things seem to jive and there is not just an outrageous score, like 0/35/0 or something that you would actually have to try to die that many times, then I'll likely pardon.

Ginga 11-13-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbird (Hozzászólás 31364534)
I try not to base it off of the score if I can help it. The first thing I look for is some kind of comment like "mid or feed" or something about threatening to feed if someone doesn't do something. Then I try to see if I can tell if the players are closer to lvl 30 or lower lvl. If no one has higher lvl summoner spells I assume it is probably a low level game and am very unlikely to punish. I would hate to punish someone new that just has no idea what is going on yet. If they are high level then I look at items and if they seem to be trying at all. If all of these things seem to jive and there is not just an outrageous score, like 0/35/0 or something that you would actually have to try to die that many times, then I'll likely pardon.


First time trying out Sejuani Solo Top in Normal during her Free Week. If you're questioning my decision to play her Solo Top, well...she's a garbage jungler, maybe she'll be a good solo top since it's completely untested. (she's not)

Ninja Tabi+Chain Mail+ HoG+ Kage + Amp Tome + Ruby


I suspect the closest thing I have to a negative comment is where I asked my team if we should just throw this and start a new game. Not telling them to, but asking if they wanna agree to.

Quote:

Me: wanna just sit in the fountain and see how fast they can beat us

Cho: why?

Me: well, if we're lucky, this can end sooner than 20 minutes

Cho: u called top. play it.
After that I just shrugged and played on...and died 7 more times over the course of the game. Turns out armour stacking is useless against Pantheon and Lee Sin.


I'd like to know how far off from your allies should your score be, or how negative does your ratio have to be to constitute Intentional Feeding.

Tswizzle SF 11-13-2012 11:22 AM

for intentional feeding, I tend to look at the scores of the team as a whole.

For example, lets just say we're looking at a 25 minute game

Reported Player: 2/9/1
Rest of the team:
4/4/1
8/2/3
0/6/8
3/7/11

I'd see that two other people on the team have high deaths as well, and the score isn't that impressive for the team as a whole. Therefore, without any chat evidence or clues from their item build, I would pardon for sure.

Ofermod 11-13-2012 11:26 AM

I'm afraid that bit about sitting in the fountain would probably be considered pretty damning evidence by the Tribunal, without some sort of indication that you did in fact return to your lane and try your hardest.

There is no set difference or ratio that constitutes Intentional Feeding. It's like the Supreme Court's judgement on pornography: "I can't set down specific guidelines, but I'll know it when I see it." One has to take into account all the information they have, and make the best judgement they can.

AcidInYourWounds 11-13-2012 11:41 AM

I would be looking for other indicators like 'No Items' or 'Speed Items'. For instance I had a case the other day where not only the Reported suggested they'd feed (after 30 seconds into the game - which could've been taken as a joke), he bought Zeals and Shurelya's - and also picked Revive.

Kial 11-13-2012 12:03 PM

Here is food for thought back door yi. unlike dota it is much more dificult to protect from back dooring because you can not buy teliporting items. so strong ad champs like yi can run around and start taking down any towers you are not gaurding. This strategy actually because stronger in the higher level gameplay but your kdr is likely to go down and here is why. you can ward to try and make escapes wringles should be on this build always so you can heal up in their jungles and give you those free wards. And unlike most MOBA games league has almost no real snowballing, there is almost always room for a comeback. Because of this one "feeder" is actaully not that big of a deal exspecially when you get to the 95%+ farm efficency where every one has stupid amounts of gold. Also it forces the oposing team to make a trade either fight a 5vs4 but lose towers or fight either a 4vs4 or try to defend with 3vs4 or less and try and gaurentee the kill. But if they do do this you make them regret it by forcing a team fight or pushing them hard and have your ranged ad start to get some good pokes on their tower. And if you are really good you can dodge their team pop up on the oposite side of the map and keep going at it all the while you are also taking out their jungle creeps their buffs and forcing them to play defencively which makes winning much harder for them.

but with all that said you can easily go 0/20/1 no problem and almost single handedly earn your team the victory.

You can argue that as Intentionally feeding pretty easily but should it be punishable?

I think league should remove intentionally feeding report option all togeather it promotes micro manniging your kda and not thinking about the game as a whole. This game is not a death match based game(although that would be a a fun game mode) therefore it should not be threated as one.

Now I am not saying that intentionall feeders don't exist. I played a ranked game season one when trundle first came out that rushed mid all game and every time he spawned yelled "time to troll" he went like 1/45/3. He was intentionally feeding. he kinda did ruined the game but I can't lie we almost won the game because he ended up pushing one of their inhibitors. He was purposefulling trolling and I did report him for it. But it goes to show how powerfull a heavying pushing strategy works with a desregard to your own life. if there is a team fight mid and you are in a side lane yeah you may have ****ed up but you won't make it in time so take down 2 towers and hope things don't go to bad for them. <- Being able to understrand that line alone right there almost instantly makes you a gold ranked player, I kid you not.

But all that said the only time some one is truely punishable for intentionally feeding is when they are purposfully suiciding. and 99% of the time you can tell from the toxicity in their own words in the chat log so intentionally feeding should just be replaced by trolling/assisting other team.

Ginga 11-13-2012 02:43 PM

What about this then?

My allies were Lux, Cho'gath, Nunu, and Kog'maw. Lux left after her 5th death. Kog and Nunu sat at the fountain when the enemy was destroying the base. Leaving me and the last guy to repeatedly rush to our deaths.

Enemies were Pantheon, Lee Sin, Anivia, and Tristana. I have no idea who their support was.
Quote:

Anivia [All] [00:00:19] glhf
Lux [00:01:08] well
Sejuani [00:01:08] whelp gg
Kog'Maw [00:01:16] wow
Nunu [00:02:48] gg
Lux [00:02:48] wow
Cho'Gath [00:02:49] its gg
Lux [00:02:50] gg
Sejuani [00:03:29] so lee is camping top
Sejuani [00:03:36] you two push hard
Sejuani [00:03:44] Lux push
Sejuani [00:03:55] Lux push mid hard
Kog'Maw [00:04:15] ahhh
Kog'Maw [00:04:22] why run away
Nunu [00:05:01] brb
Sejuani [00:05:07] wanna just sit in the fountain and see how fast they can beat us?
Cho'Gath [00:05:17] why?
Sejuani [00:05:31] well, if we're lucky, this can end sooner than 20 minutes
Nunu [00:05:33] seju 3death
Nunu [00:05:35] but no ward
Nunu [00:05:40] very nice
Cho'Gath [00:05:41] u called top. play it.
Sejuani [00:05:44] well we were losing to begin with
Sejuani [00:06:07] So close
Sejuani [00:06:18] come gank for once dude
Sejuani [00:07:24] kil him
Cho'Gath [00:07:31] 2
Cho'Gath [00:07:51] how about no
Cho'Gath [00:07:55] done die
Cho'Gath [00:07:57] dont*
Sejuani [00:08:03] got ganked
Cho'Gath [00:08:10] nah u face checked
Cho'Gath [00:08:17] did u not see them in blue jungle?
Sejuani [00:08:28] well you shoulda killed them if they were in your jungle...
Sejuani [00:08:59] if they take your jungle, just take thiers
Kog'Maw [00:09:39] feed so
Nunu [All] [00:09:56] end plz
Anivia [All] [00:10:03] lol whts going on
Nunu [All] [00:10:06] all push 1lane
Tristana [All] [00:10:18] dont be a weenie
Nunu [All] [00:10:34] 7vs3 hard
Lux [00:11:59] rofl
Anivia [All] [00:12:59] why
Anivia [All] [00:13:01] would u do that
Anivia [All] [00:13:03] :(
Nunu [All] [00:13:06] lux report plz
Anivia [All] [00:13:16] for what
Kog'Maw [00:13:18] oh my pig
Nunu [All] [00:13:19] afk
Cho'Gath [00:14:03] to the tribunal for lux!
Kog'Maw [00:15:04] god like ?
Cho'Gath [00:15:10] nah legendary
Kog'Maw [00:15:15] lol
Nunu [All] [00:15:31] top and mid sweet
Cho'Gath [All] [00:15:39] this must be easier than a bot game for u guys :/
Sejuani [All] [00:15:48] oh don't be so emo....
Lee Sin [All] [00:15:49] no
Lee Sin [All] [00:15:53] i feel bad
Cho'Gath [All] [00:16:01] same
Lee Sin [All] [00:16:03] coz wen sejuani was 1 i ganked twice
Anivia [All] [00:16:18] and lux got unlucky i got the first blood with an autoattack
Cho'Gath [All] [00:16:27] yea i saw that exchange.
Anivia [All] [00:16:28] so i came to lane with a 66 mr
Anivia [All] [00:16:33] whats she sposed to do about that
Cho'Gath [00:16:57] we cant stop that
Lee Sin [All] [00:17:15] lol
Kog'Maw [00:17:46] 7 - 26
Cho'Gath [All] [00:17:46] raid boss down
Nunu [All] [00:18:07] plz end all push mid
Tristana [All] [00:18:17] stop biching plz (changed to bypass censor)
Cho'Gath [All] [00:18:22] ^
Nunu [00:18:28] dont def
Cho'Gath [00:18:33] im playing bro
Nunu [00:18:45] plz go next game
Kog'Maw [00:20:09] yes
Pantheon [All] [00:20:17] nunu busted out the nikes
Anivia [All] [00:20:22] gg wp
Cho'Gath [All] [00:20:25] gunit boots
Lee Sin [All] [00:20:25] ggtqqqop
I got reported by 3 of my remaining allies...which means two of the people who were sitting on the fountain while I died some more protecting the base reported me. And one of them left "0/10. even pantheon agrees with him/her intentionally feeding. just why?"

I think the game became a 4v5 around the 11 minute mark. Lux fed because Anivia got first blood off her, and I fed due to stupid amounts camping even though my lane was stuck right at my turret. Neither of us fed intentionally. But I think Lux left the game intentionally, or went AFK, since we never got a "A summoner has disconnected" message. And the only reason I had double of Lux's death is because I stayed for the rest of the game.

My Score: 0/10/2
Nunu: 3/4/3
Lux: 0/5/0
Kog: 2/7/4
Cho: 5/6/2

Know what would be sweet? A replay feature attached to each Tribunal case for "Assisting Enemy Team" and "Intentionally Feeding"

gnfnrf 11-13-2012 03:32 PM

If you have a particular reform card you'd like the forum to look at, please post the link. It's much easier to read than a cut-n-paste, and it includes all the information with no concerns about selective excerpts.

As for the general question, there is no "magic ratio" in which feeding becomes intentional. By its very nature, intentional feeding requires, well, intent.

For "whole game" feeding cases (a player who is never trying to contribute to the team at all), I look for the following clues.

Deaths in excess of 1 per 2 minutes.
No or very few kills.
No or very few assists (compare to kills and assists on teammates).
Empty, ward-filled, or speedboosting item builds.
Evidence in chat, particularly by the player or the enemy team.

I would only vote to punish for intentional feeding if I saw enough of those to convince me the player was trying to get killed.

BillyTheAttorney 11-13-2012 03:44 PM

"Intentional Feeding" to me is completely circumstantial. When I'm judging a situation where that is the issue I look at the following.

1) Deaths of player reported vs. deaths on his team - If they're in the same ballpark, everyone was sucking.
2) Deaths of player reported vs. time of game - if you have 20 deaths in a 25 minute game, that means the only time you were not dying to the enemy was when you were already dead and waiting to spawn.
3) Assists of player reported - This is important. Being 2/8/7 is still being productive, because it tells me that someone was participating in team fights, and while having a bad game - he's not feeding intentionally. If the overall kills of the allied team was low, but the "feeder" had an assist in some of them, that's not intentionally feeding.
4) Chat log - If someone is intentionally feeding someone says something about it. If it's really bad, an enemy player will usually say something like "Sorry for your troll (champion)." Enemy team commentary on this usually helps because they're neutral on the subject while the allied team might just be in a rage fest. Also, enemy chat might help excuse someone who's reported. Especially if allied team says "report (champion) for feeding" and then they say "He's not, we were camping him" that also factors into the decision.
5) Relative level and items compared to the rest of the team, and cs if applicable. If everyone on the team is around a lvl 16 at the end of the game and the "intentional feeder" is a few levels around them, it doesn't seem like intentional feeding. However, if someone is rolling around at lvl 8 at 20 minutes with wards and boots in their inventory with 10+ deaths 2 cs and no assists - that certainly helps me make the decision.

So, each person has their own definition of "intentionally feeding." I use a series of factors when I make that determination.

Also, just because someone has been reported for "intentionally feeding" does not mean I do not look for other instances of being a toxic player. If someone went 5/5/10 and was reported for intentionally feeding but spent the whole game just calling his team "noob f****ots" every line of text - I'll still punish,


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