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-   Tribunal Ban Inquiries (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=41)
-   -   The Tribunal Accuracy Problem (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2790375)

Dark Sentry 11-12-2012 01:57 PM

The Tribunal Accuracy Problem
 
I think the tribunal is overly harsh with their punishing. People have bad games and sometimes they are provoked by enemies or teammates. I'm not saying everything is justified when provoked, but instead I'm asking for people to consider it when they weigh the reported player's actions. I don't think most people realize this or take into account.

Sure, some cases are so blatantly obvious that punish can be clicked in the first 10 seconds. Others require at least 2 minutes to figure out what went on in the game. I give the benefit of the doubt to the player until something changes my mind. I feel like most people are looking for the first sign of bad behavior to punish someone and move on to the next case. This shouldn't be the mindset.

Example (I was one of "very few" who pardoned, yet the guy got a time ban):
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/case/5924094/

Game 1 thoughts:
He says the enemy mid is stupid to his teammates. This can be interpreted as he can outplay him on his own or that the Malz is a good target for a gank and a kill. He is not insulting his teammates. The teammate fiora provokes him so much, and the worst thing he says is trash, where he is being called an "annoying ****", he still offers constructive criticism, although not sugar coated, but he generally keeps his cool throughout the game to try and continues trying to coordinate with his teammates.
The fiora was the problem of this game and if someone like that wasn't there. He would have been a good teammate...

Game 2 thoughts:
Elise says stfu to him. he says stfu back. w/e. she calls him a ***** and he calls her an idiot.
Same thing as previous, Elise should have had the ban imo. And if the elise wasn't in the game he wouldn't have a problem here.

Game 3 thoughts:
really nothing bad...

Another problem is the current accuracy statistic doesn't show how accurately you judge a case. Instead, it shows how similar you judge to the majority. If the majority is punishing for minor provoked offenses. I get my statistic punished for it by not feeling that. I still have a 94% accuracy rating atm, but its cases that I'm "wrong" on, yet still feel like "I'm right" that irk me...

TLDR: If I'm having my accuracy statistic dropped for judging a case that I still feel should have been a pardon, It makes me feel the system is broken and alienates players like me who give the benefit of the doubt to the reported player. The current system tells me I'm wrong for forgiving minor offenses that are provoked, and if thats the case then I shouldn't be doing tribunal because I'm apparently "wrong"

Another case here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/case/5925117/
I would appreciate feedback with reasoning as to why these people are being punished.

DragoonDoug 11-12-2012 02:05 PM

I agree with you, that's why i just did a post of my own saying that there should be a way to appeal a decision you have judged if your in the minority so that you can try and explain why you don't think the decision is appropriate. There's no balance to the majority with the tribunal and lets face it, the majority is not always right.

Tswizzle SF 11-12-2012 02:08 PM

You also have to have many reports before your case ends up in tribunal. Having a few bad games won't make you appear, but consistently doing poorly or harassing your team will put you on trial, and you can't argue the evidence.

Enterti 11-12-2012 02:16 PM

Hes pretty negative in all the games. I probably would have punished.

magooomba 11-12-2012 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkSentry (Hozzászólás 31321488)
I think the tribunal is overly harsh with their punishing. People have bad games and sometimes they are provoked by enemies or teammates. I'm not saying everything is justified when provoked, but instead I'm asking for people to consider it when they weigh the reported player's actions. I don't think most people realize this or take into account.

Sure, some cases are so blatantly obvious that punish can be clicked in the first 10 seconds. Others require at least 2 minutes to figure out what went on in the game. I give the benefit of the doubt to the player until something changes my mind. I feel like most people are looking for the first sign of bad behavior to punish someone and move on to the next case. This shouldn't be the mindset.

Example (I was one of "very few" who pardoned, yet the guy got a time ban):
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/case/5924094/

Game 1 thoughts:
He says the enemy mid is stupid to his teammates. This can be interpreted as he can outplay him on his own or that the Malz is a good target for a gank and a kill. He is not insulting his teammates. The teammate fiora provokes him so much, and the worst thing he says is trash, where he is being called an "annoying ****", he still offers constructive criticism, although not sugar coated, but he generally keeps his cool throughout the game to try and continues trying to coordinate with his teammates.
The fiora was the problem of this game and if someone like that wasn't there. He would have been a good teammate...

Game 2 thoughts:
Elise says stfu to him. he says stfu back. w/e. she calls him a ***** and he calls her an idiot.
Same thing as previous, Elise should have had the ban imo. And if the elise wasn't in the game he wouldn't have a problem here.

Game 3 thoughts:
really nothing bad...

Another problem is the current accuracy statistic doesn't show how accurately you judge a case. Instead, it shows how similar you judge to the majority. If the majority is punishing for minor provoked offenses. I get my statistic punished for it by not feeling that. I still have a 94% accuracy rating atm, but its cases that I'm "wrong" on, yet still feel like "I'm right" that irk me...

TLDR: If I'm having my accuracy statistic dropped for judging a case that I still feel should have been a pardon, It makes me feel the system is broken and alienates players like me who give the benefit of the doubt to the reported player. The current system tells me I'm wrong for forgiving minor offenses that are provoked, and if thats the case then I shouldn't be doing tribunal because I'm apparently "wrong"

You may just have differing views than most voters in the Tribunal. That is what your accuracy is reflective of, not the inherent "rightness" or "wrongness" of your views, or even the would-be arguable objective outcome of the case. Trust that your views are supporting by your reasoning and that others may just not have the same reasoning in their voting.

dredzach 11-12-2012 02:39 PM

I agree with you. I see the same things. I think letting people see the reports they got "wrong" changes what "wrong" is. I have personally felt like maybe I shouldn't be so lenient sometimes, so I can have better accuracy. Something is wrong with the way tribunal judges are trained.

I think tribunal judges should be given better instructions. Not just go with their own conception of what the rules are.

For example, this whole "non-meta = trolling" stuff lately is really starting to irk me. It's not trolling unless the player is buying dumb items and acting dumb in the game (aside from picking a certain champ or lane).

Camikio 11-12-2012 03:07 PM

I saw some throwing around racism and very hurtful worlds but because it wasnt in game 1 I feel people ignored it. I Would gladly have an appeal system seeing how this person was incredibly hurtful to his team and the enemies. Just overall gives that sickly feeling at seeing someone so negative and abusive to people for no reason. usually i find myself pressing punish and people pardoning but their cases are like 2 times out of 5 games where they were abusive. An appeal system would be nice.

And Yes I have seen it go the other way as well like others. XD pardon when people punish But i often see alot of negative and abusive players get punished.

Trashcanx 11-12-2012 03:09 PM

People get reported and temp banned because they are causing their teamates to "not have fun." Why cant i report and get someone temp banned for not being very good because it makes me "not have fun" when i queue with them?

Eraseasaurus 11-12-2012 03:09 PM

I end up skipping about 90% of the cases and mainly focus on the ones blatantly bannable or pardonable.

AlexDnD2 11-12-2012 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoboslayer (Hozzászólás 31324029)
People get reported and temp banned because they are causing their teamates to "not have fun." Why cant i report and get someone temp banned for not being very good because it makes me "not have fun" when i queue with them?

You can.

Just have to do it strategically. Attempt to provoke them without putting yourself in danger.

"What happened top?"

Innocent question but say it right after a death when they are already frustrated may provoke a response. Then you can hit em for verbal abuse/offensive language. Additionally if you've never gone to tribunal feel free to be riskier and outright belittle them - but avoid doing it too often or you might get banned to.


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