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-   -   Help me not die. Noob Questions (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2782059)

IamTheTrueKing 11-09-2012 08:23 PM

Help me not die. Noob Questions
Hello everyone. I'm a noob to LOL and I have a few questions that might help my team win more games.

My champion progression has been Kayle->Vayne->Twisted Fate (kinda)->Varus.

I'm comfortable playing Vayne and am still getting the hang of Varus. Twisted Fate is meh for me, but I did fall in love with DPS Kayle when I first started. I understand the concepts of carries like Vayne and Varus, so please answer these questions accordingly.

1. How important is it to actually get kills early game?
I keep thinking that you NEED to really get 2 kills early game or else you pretty much fail. I used to simply focus on cs before... is this okay or do I need to harass and kill? I get reckless which usually gets me killed during early game.

2. 2V1 is pretty much suicide for me, right?
Should i immediately start running as soon as I see another champion around the corner? Is it reckless to try and poke between creeps? What's your mentality?

3. Killstealing is GOOD!
Well not really... this is the best way to annoy people in your team. What's your mentality on it? I only care about actually getting the kill when ganking. It doesn't matter who gets it, but I've come to realize that everyone else seems to care. I've gotten the kill (with Vayne usually) when the target is trying to run and I think they'll get away unless I do something... but then I get accused of KS. What's the etiquette? They yell at me and ask why I didn't Q when I back off to avoid KS.

4. Keep Farming?
When do I stop farming and start roaming around the map with my group? Or rather, if no one is juggling, when is it okay for me to run up into lanes? I'm sure the laners appreciate it... but this also means that I'm not getting gold to buy stuff since I'm not in my lane farming.

5. When do I take out towers?
Is my main goal to take out towers ASAP (earlygame) or should I stand by my towers and bait my opponents to get reckless and overextend? Clearly the jungler has a major part in this... but I also feel like I'm losing the lane if I don't take a tower down by the 10 minute mark.

Those are my noob questions for now. Any answers or opinions would be greatly appreciated.


Mich567 11-09-2012 08:46 PM

1. It is important... try to force them into mistakes, gank them (with your jungler or your mid who's roaming). But don't be stupid and start charging in... watch the other lanes and be careful about enemy champs with CC. Keep on getting CS too... obviously, don't have your support get any.
2. You can try to poke, but be extremely careful watching the map and with CC (as I said before). Ganks and CC will screw you over. Sometimes it's too late to pull off an escape.
3. My view on kill stealing is that it really doesn't matter unless the person who got kill stole really NEEDS the kill and the kill will benefit them more than the person who pulled off the Ks (e.g. obvious one... Support kill steals ADc... FAIL). Just be reasonable with other people. Unfortunately, logical arguments do not always work... at that point you can probably just ignore them. Remember, it's a team game (most of the time).
4. Just watch for people overextending... it's inevitable. Then pray that no one calls mia, they call mia too late, and/or that the person/people have bad map awareness... Anyone overextending or if your teammate is low and/or needs help. However, I wouldn't do it TOO early, as in around the first 5 or 6 levels. You need some farm then. If there is a golden opportunity and the enemy team is stupid, then DO IT! You can get a double kill or something with really low enemies still (stupidly) pushing.
5. Take out turrets as much as you can. MAKE SURE to win your lane. BUT, if you die a few times early, it's hard to win your lane. Obviously, watch the map too, and RUN AWAY very soon because you're extremely susceptible to ganks, unless you're extremely good at juking and running. Baiting your opponents works well (Doing it with Singed? EVEN BETTER :D) but if they don't take the bait, it's kinda pointless. It's good to gank people when they're overextending ALWAYS. And obviously, it's better when they're low or you're both low (in this case, be a little cautious, obviously...). You're not necessarily losing your lane if it's 10 minutes and you don't have a turret. Sometimes it's just a stalemate...
That's all I have to say.

Trypsto 11-09-2012 09:11 PM

Typically speaking AD Carry is probably my worst, or least favorite roll but I am an avid fan of pro competitions and I play all roles quite a bit so I think I can help here from that basis. I am by no means an expert on high level AD Carry play but I think some information could help anyways.

1. There are a lot of ways to play the game and a lot of strategies to choose from when laning and especially in bot lane where there is even more team play than usual. (I am assuming since you talked about ad carries that you are in bot lane with a support, if not then this probably still helps I think.) Depending on your collective skill level and your combo of champs getting kills may be more important than not, or at least easier to do. For instance if you were laning as a Vayne+Taric or maybe an Ezreal+Zyra then you would be in an aggressive "kill lane." This usually means that you plan to push the other players and get kills because your combo of champs works really well to that goal. Leona is another support usually associated with this aggressive style. A farming combo may be a Graves+Soraka or a KogMaw+Nunu who are naturally better at detering aggressive plays against them and sustaining in lane.

Regardless of that you want to "win" your lane. There are scenarios where you can be down a kill or so but you outfarm the other AD Carry and end up doing better in the long run. No matter what you do try to keep your farm up, and don't sacrifice yourself for a kill. At least not on purpose if you can help it. Getting kills is a great benefit but if you can work on last hitting and good farming then you should be ok without the kills, as long as you're not getting killed repeatedly anyways.

2. 2v1 is really dependent on the champions you're going up against. Typically you don't want to rush into that unless you're fed, skilled, or they are unskilled and you know it. If you keep map awareness and call for teammates to back you up then sometimes it's ok to "bait" them in a fight by diving then using escapes to lure them into a trap from teammates. However until you're getting close to full build I would usually not want to take 2v1 without a certain AD Carry champ. Instead you could try to pressure them by poking or something but be careful and cautious. If they are both low health then it might be ok. Really it's just about knowing your skill and what you're capable of.

3. If you are your teams AD Carry then you should be getting all the kills. The one character that no one should ever complain about KS'ing is your teams AD Carry. They have the greatest impact late game and require lots of gold in order to be effective in their role. If anything your team should be giving you kills when they can. I heard a lot of people complaining about KS'ing before I was level 30 but if your team knows how the current meta works and what roles everyone is trying to accomplish then you should certainly have the most kills. That's not to say some other characters shouldn't get any. Karthus, Jax, Olaf, Riven, Hecarim and others who are not actual AD Carries can carry games to a win and are extreme snow-ball champs that can get out of control. But typically as an AD Carry you shouldn't get complaints whenever you get a kill.

4. This is very dependant on the game. As an AD Carry gold is extremely important for you. You should always be looking for a way to farm. As a person who spent most of Season 1 and 2 as a jungler I can say that at the current meta, where junglers are usually tanks or off-tanks then they don't need to keep using the jungle for farm after the first tower is down a lot of the time. See if it's ok with your jungler to take some extra camps after you've pushed a wave. Whenever I play jungle I almost never pick up golems after my first clear so I tell the closest lane that they can have them.

After the first tower is down you'll usually see a shift towards roaming or teamfighting. As an AD Carry you should try to always stay with a bodyguard of some kind. If there is going to be a team fight somewhere then then be a part of it. If the two teams are facing off in mid but nothing is happening and you notice a huge wave at one of your towers then see if your team will back off to take care of it. Do not leave your team to do it on your own. As soon as it becomes a 4v5 then the other team (if your team isn't fed in some way) will probably dive and take your team out. It is important to team fight as a team. There are some characters that don't necessarily follow this rule; Twisted Fate, Shen, people who likely have a Teleport Summoner. These people can turn up at the fight just as it begins, however it is still important to stay with the group. Just stay safe. If their team is split up and you can see it on the map then you can probably go grab some farm.

5. Taking towers is a strategy you need to figure out for your team. Now in most solo que games this won't matter too much, just take them when you can. However if you ever get to do a 5v5 premade or something then you need to figure out how you want to deal with objectives. Objectives are things like towers, inhibitors, Blue/Red buffs, Dragon, and Baron. How you control these will massively effect the game and your play style. Korean, and asian teams in particular, seem to go for very aggressive and early tower kills to give them map control. Basically if you take the bottom tower down early then that creates a huge danger zone for the other team to farm in, they have nothing to hide behind in bot lane now. This could give you better control over dragon and if you ward a lot it will give you better vision. Other teams who are interested in a strong late game, like CLG.EU who are famous for there incredibly good stalling and late game strategies will try to never even hit a tower unless they need to. I often see them push a wave up to the enemy tower and then go do something else, letting the minions damage the tower on their own. This way the laning phase lasts longer and they can farm more passively. Typically I would say that, for me, if I start to win a lane and am around level 8-9 then i'll start pushing the enemy tower down if I can. If the enemy team takes one of your towers first however then it is free game, at that point try and take their towers at will. After the first tower is down is when I consider the game to have moved into Mid-game where roaming is more prevelant.

Another thing to note is when the enemy team is forcing an objective somewhere. If you notice that 4 members of the enemy team are in top lane pushing your tower and you know you wont make it in time to help then push their bottom tower, at least you'll trade a tower for a tower. Don't forget that towers give gold to all of your allies and killing towers in order to get to the nexus is more important than kills in the long run. If the enemy team dives your teammate in another lane and you can take their tower while they are distracted (in this case only if you can't make it in time to save that teammate) then take the tower. It's worth more than the bit of gold they got from that kill.

One more piece of advice: Map Awareness. More than anything in the game map awareness will win you matches. Wards are a major part of this, but in general looking at your mini-map about once every 20 seconds will go a long way. When you suddenly notice that the enemy mid just went out of sight while going bot through the river bush then it could save you. Make sure to call mia's in your lane if an enemy leaves it for any reason. If they went B and you know it then say that too because they could show up in another lane to ruin someone's day. Try and check the mini map close to 4 times a minute if possible and you'll become a better player very quickly. Junglers and Mid players have to do this more so than some other lanes because of how open mid lane is and how map aware you have to be just to do well as a jungler, but it helps every player.

Hopefully some of this was helpful, sorry it was so much. Good Luck out there summoner, and happy hunting!

High Lord Bunny 11-10-2012 11:32 AM

I'm going to vouch for Tryptso here.

1. Lots of strategies here, and not all of them involve kills. I can't really touch on anything Tryptso hasn't already said.

2. This will come with experience. I hate to say it, but you're just going to have to live and die through a few fights before you start to judge which fights you can and can't win and why it is that you can or can't win them.

3. Kill stealing is a natural part of life. If you're faced with a choice where you think that your options are either a) steal the kill, or b) let the enemy escape, then feel free to kill them. Most people will understand. Just don't become one of those people who doesn't contribute to fights but then leaps in at the last second so that they can get the gold. There's a difference between playing an assassin character and a cheap player.

4. This is something that you work out with your team each time and usually depends on your lane. For bot specifically, a popular thing I see in matches is that bot lane will coordinate with their jungler so that as soon as the enemy tower in bot is down the three will take dragon.

5. As fast as you can. Don't kill yourself or lose essential farm trying to take a tower, but every little bit can help mid to late game. Again, being aware of the map is useful and the gray area for when you should and shouldn't push can be pretty huge sometimes. Again, it's something that you'll learn with experience.

Hope some of this was helpful.

IamTheTrueKing 11-10-2012 10:00 PM

Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate the answers.

I've been looking at this from one perspective, and this has really shed some light on what I could be doing better.

Trypsto 11-11-2012 09:53 AM

Glad to help out!

IKorey 11-11-2012 10:06 AM

1. How important is it to actually get kills early game?
Of course not, a kill is 20 cs at max value (0-0) Which can be gained easily by doing wraiths, your better of out cs'ing your oponent and ganking other lanes to be ahead.
2. 2V1 is pretty much suicide for me, right?
So I see the jungler coming for a gank, I try to stay in lane to get the last hits or push but if I am playing a champion with no escapes like twisted fate then I run immediately, I also wouldn't stay in lane if the jungler was a hecarim or something, if its a ww lvl 5 or under i'd stay and probably would just waste his time.

3. Killstealing is GOOD!
No such thing as KillStealing in my opinion unless your the jungler, why would you take the kills though if your already super fed, or why would you take the kills when your adc got beat up all game and now in team fights he needs to get ahead.

Don't KS if your a top laner, KS if your Mid or ADC other then that don't intentionally try to take a kill.

4. Keep Farming?
There is no point in the game when you shouldn't be farming, as a mid if I go back to base and my team is wanting to push top, I'll go through mid and push the wave and take wraiths then go check enemy blue ect, no point in the game should you stop farming.

5. When do I take out towers?
I honestly feel anytime after 15 minutes is fine for taking out the tower maybe even 13 minutes +, but honestly I wouldn't take out the towers if your team needs to get cs to do well.

For example, if your adc is a Kog'Maw or Vayne, they need CS early or they will have a hard time late.

I feel like these are experience questions, just keep playing.

JJ Unbreakable 11-11-2012 11:49 AM

1: Rule 1 of LoL is don't die. Rule 2 is don't chase Singed. Rule 3 is kill things. As you know, killing is profitable but don't risk dying.

2: Refer to Rule 1 - Don't die. If you can't/don't know how to 2v1, don't.

3: Just kill things. Your team complaining about a kill is better than complaining about not getting a kill. If you are 1000% sure your team-mate can get the kill, do that. Otherwise, take no risks.

4: You want to farm most of the game. From the start of the game, you will probably not join with your team unless they definitely can't hold the tower/get dragon without you. Look for big waves on your side of the map.
Golden Rule: If their creep wave has more ranged units than your side, their wave will push itself to your side of the map eventually.

5: Refer to Rule 1 - Don't die. If you've ever watched the pros play, they never attack creeps (push the lane) unless they're getting the last hit on creeps.
Keeping closer to your tower is better. Having your enemy away from their tower is better.
A tower is just money in the bank. Kill it when it's safe.

Sky Mence 11-11-2012 03:39 PM

10 General rules of LoL:
1. Never tower dive deep into the turret during early levels, youll prob feed kills. Doesnt matter how many teammates do it.
2. Towers>Kills
3. Dont overextend without ward coverage
4. Never trade kills unless A. You scale/snowball better than the opponent or B. They have jungle buffs.
5. Cooperate and follow-up with ganks.
6. Ward your lane
7. Split push or BD if you cant teamfight
8. If someone without an ability to jump into a fight at any time (Shen, TF, etc) leaves the lane, try to engage if the game is atleast even.
9. Focus correctly in fights.
10. Forcing someone out of a fight is enough. Go help your team that needs you.

Answers to questions:

1. Meh, being 0/0/2 with 200 cs at 20 mins isnt too bad. Better than 5/0/0 with 20 cs.
2. Depends. If you can kill one and think you can get away with it, go for it. Otherwise, just avoid losing turret and cs the best you can. If you absolutely cant, just play things that is not solo top.
3. If you are taric and vayne can get the kill, try not to ks. If the opponent is getting away and/or the kill will benefit you, its fine. Just mute the ragers that complain.
4. You can gank whenever you want if you are jungler or mid that got the enemy tower. As ADC, just cs unless you KNOW its a free kill. If nothing is going on, just cs when you can afford to until you are full build.
5. In solo Q, "taking turrets too early" usually doesnt exist.

Deathremar 11-11-2012 08:57 PM

dude if you dont want to die early: eat healthy, work out, have fun in healthy ways: dancing, hang out with friends, and have a not stressful job, you will live forever!....you jelly mortals?!

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