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-   -   @Riot/Community: Concerns about the direction of Singed's Lore (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2780200)

Great Owl 11-09-2012 09:21 AM

@Riot/Community: Concerns about the direction of Singed's Lore
Warning: Wall of Text
Recently I’ve become concerned about what Riot’s Lore team is doing to Singed. Singed was one of the first champions I played when I joined in February 2011 (right before Karma’s release). When leveling to 30 I pretty much mained Singed and Janna, and my first ever rune page was dedicated to Singed (M pen, Dodge, Mr/lvl, Movespeed).

One of the things that drew me to Singed initially was his lore. Singed is by no means a good person, he is unethical to the extreme, and revels in making destructive chemicals. But all this was motivated by Singed’s yearning to innovate and discover. Singed isn’t a mass murderer, he’s a scientist. He doesn’t live for suffering, he lives for experimentation, otherwise why would he test his chemicals on himself, when there are plenty of innocent people in Zaun to abduct, like Dr. Mundo does. But all that could change.

Two more recent lore updates have implicated Singed as evil, rather than insane and unconcerned with the well being of others. Based on these additions, I fear that when the lore department updates his lore, they will remake him as ruthless evil ******bag person #17.

The first lore to suggest Riot wants to change Singed was Riven’s. As you probably know, Riven’s lore blames Singed for gassing her squad in Ionia:


They called for support as the enemy closed in around them. What they received instead was a barrage of biochemical terror launched by Singed.
The most important word is bolded. The chemicals were “launched” by Singed. Not developed, or supplied or produced. Launched. This makes no sense. Singed is responsible for making horrible chemicals that induce terrible suffering but Singed isn’t a Noxian military official, he is a supplier. Singed launching biochemical weapons would be like Lockheed Martin bombing Afghanistan. It just feels like they messed up the wording.

What caused me to believe that they might actually be turning singed into an evil Noxian mass murderer were the changes to Warwick's lore. Warwick is now a kidnapper who supplies test subjects to scientists. But why would he be friends with Singed then? Singed doesn’t test people against their will, he tests himself. If he does use kidnapped subjects, there is zero reason for him to test chemicals on himself. This implies that Riot wants to push Singed more into the Dr. Mundo role (being sadistic) by making him rely on kidnapped subjects more. Such a change would destroy the interesting “tests on self” element of Singed’s personality, and would make it easier to believe he also launches weapons of mass destruction. I really do not want Singed to turn into a ruthless killer, we have plenty of those, and if Riot wants an immoral military figure that is ok with mass murder they can use Swain.

So why should I care? I’m not attached to Singed’s current character like you Great Owl.

You should care because this destroys a unique archetype and replaces it with a generic one that includes ~30% of champions, who are sadistic and evil and just wanna kill stuff.
You should care because painting champions in a negative light can discourage play. How many people would play Riven if her lore talked about how she loved killing people and pillaging villages? Cause that is basically what Riven did until she got bombed. Maybe it’s not entirely true, but it does reflect how she acted, and why she didn’t defect until she was a victim herself. Of course, nobody wants that to happen to Riven’s lore, even if there is a grain of truth. So why should this happen to Singed’s lore? Why focus on the killing of Ionians and not the insanity and his quest for knowledge at all costs?

Singed should not be changed into another mindless killer. Please show you support by commenting in this thread or voicing your concerns to Riot in other threads or discussions. Riot may not have decided on any changes to Singed’s lore yet, so there is still time to act.

TL;DR Singed is at risk of being retconned into a generic evil mass-murderer instead of an insane scientist with no concern for the consequences of his work.

Aphet 11-11-2012 11:35 AM

This was sort of how I felt when they changed the lore of Soraka and Warwick. Riot pls.

maxterdexter 11-12-2012 03:25 AM

- The "for science!" self experimenting character is also with Viktor, they almost botched that, but did a rollback. It's also seen with Ziggs of all people.

- "when suitable test subjects proved to be in short supply" then he experimented on himself, not as a first measure

- Even so, It takes someone evil, or at least someone mad to go and ingest "Insanity Potion" or test on himself the Poison Trail and then go and say "that should ruin someone's day, let me sell it to those Noxian fellows"

As things stand, the only change that we know will happen is to change Warwick's role, and if the lore team goes as deep as it should, to change Warwick's role in Karma's judment.

Cerubois 11-12-2012 05:21 AM

I feel like you read only half of Singed's lore...

A few excerpts:


Singed had little concern for the death and destruction that was the fruit of his labors.

...he was ready to share his genius by bringing a new brand of suffering to the Ionian front.
(as stated above by maxterdexter)

His zeal for progress was unquenchable, and when suitable test subjects proved to be in short supply, the eager chemist was often thought to turn his volatile mixtures on his own flesh.
Singed was evil long before Riven's lore came along. You say he was simply unethical, but it's blatantly stated that he wanted to cause suffering. That's evil.

He was a willing participant in the Ionian War as a Zaunite mercenary hired by Noxus. Yes, he made the chemicals for them. And yes, he did use them. He alone wiped out Yi's village just to see the effects of his new chemicals. Note that this is the only reason Yi's village was destroyed, as it held no strategic value. It was destroyed for Singed's own selfish desires. That's evil.

He is a ruthless killer. But he does not do it simply to kill people, like some of the other champions. He does it for his own perverse satisfaction that he created the chemical that's killing them. I'm not going to argue that he's not a mindless killer. He definitely has a mind. It's just twisted. And evil.

On a side note, I feel the need to defend Riven a bit. She did not love killing people. She was a soldier. She followed orders. That's what soldiers do.
Over time, she began realizing it was wrong, before finally having it cemented in her head when her unit was obliterated. Noxus was doing it wrong, especially by having Zaun there.
I know you only said this as a 'what if', but the fact is that Singed was painted as a villain in the first place. Claiming Riven could be a villain by disregarding her lore is nonsense.

Vuther 11-12-2012 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by Cerubois (Hozzászólás 31309673)
I feel like you read only half of Singed's lore...

Gonna have to agree with this. Singed's background, collected with Master Yi's, basically paints a picture of "I'M LIKE THE WEAPONSMITH + CHEMIST VERSION OF JOSEF MENGELE".

owlmazing 03-03-2013 04:03 PM

i dont understand the Singed launching the chems part either. slight change to being a supplier maybe riot? especially when some of Rivens interview lore describes zaunite melters firing the chem barrage intead? also please never change Rivens lore i loves it how it is.

NecroticBinder 03-03-2013 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by owlmazing (Hozzászólás 35230434)
i dont understand the Singed launching the chems part either. slight change to being a supplier maybe riot? especially when some of Rivens interview lore describes zaunite melters firing the chem barrage intead? also please never change Rivens lore i loves it how it is.

Because he was a zaunite mercenary. AKA he was working with the melters and likely in charge of them since they were his chemicals and he would have the best knowledge of them since his lore states that he enjoys seeing them used so therefore he has no reason to not be part of the launching.

If anything, you are asking for singed to be changed away from what he is rather then stopping a change away from it.

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