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-   -   Mooglet's on Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2752514)

Westlin 11-01-2012 08:29 PM

Mooglet's on Dominion
 
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Is this too strong? Too weak? Just right?
Sorry I'm a little excited for this being added because it frees up space for AP champs so they can get Zhonya's and Rabbadon's in one package.

So discuss.

konfetarius 11-01-2012 08:41 PM

For comparison:

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zhonya%27s_Ring
Quote:

The reason for Zhonya's break-up into two items was because the item "gave ultimate offense and ultimate defense for casters" which was deemed too strong.
Let all the huelording commence.

Also, I vaguely recall reasoning for a new DD Deathcap because the Old Deathcap was too pricey for the mode. 2700 gold price tag of the TT Deathbeanie makes sense with that reasoning. 3500 pricetag with the new not as much (current Deathcap is 3600 pricetag for the uninitiated).

/Summon Riotnome

P.S. Why 2.5 second on the active? A buff is a buff and I will ultimately take it, but it's going to feel weird to have that specific timing change.

Sakuri Ono 11-01-2012 08:52 PM

Can't say definitively. No idea which of the other TT items are coming over for synergy and which of our existing items will be given the boot.

But in a vacuum these are my thoughts on it:

Not that good, highly circumstantial.

-Part of the big problem is it relies on you buying a NLR. I've never been too fond of that item and the ones it builds into here in Dominion because the cost. 1600 is a relatively long time to be waiting for a single item in a Dominion game (even with the accelerated gold). Even waiting for the Giant's Belt on Rylai's can slide you just far enough back on the power scale that you'll be sub-par for anywhere from 1-3 important team fights, easily. Unless you're winning quite hard it's usually better to focus on items where you can gradually increase your power (while counter building your opponent) every time you're at base; not just sudden, uneven spurts.

-The Zhonya's effect is not worth the Move Speed loss; at all. 10% MS is worth far more than 2.5 secs of immortality. That MS helps you get to fights faster, reach towers in time for interrupts/captures, out-race slower champions to avoid ganks and broken front lines, ect. Avoiding damage for two and a half tics really will only be useful for tower defense, but even then not that much.

The only time it'll ever make a difference is in those rare instances where someone dives who'll likely kill you (such as a bruiser) and you manage to play the kiting game until the turret builds up enough power to nearly finish the job for you. But people would learn fast enough to never solo dive such situations thus make the rare situation even rarer.

Popping it during teamfights isn't much use either. Team fighting is much more mobile in Dom than it is in SR. Usually the group as a whole is moving either towards or away from a turret. If someone has crashed the lines and is about to take your head just turning statue for 2.5 won't make a difference. By then the battle line will have moved up and you'll be coming back right in the middle of their lines; where all five will just drop you. Unlike SR Flash isn't used that often here; so you can't just Zhon + Flash when their attention is redirected.
______

In conclusion: If I want a AP-caster survival item against AD I'll just pick up a Frozen Heart over this version of the Cap any day. CDR, higher Armor, Mana, less cost, and a passive to shut down AAs. Most of the champions I play AP currently (Brand, Ori, Elise, ect.) don't need loads of AP to be relevant in fights; so this offers nothing tempting.

Again though; I'm just viewing this in a vacuum of 'Suddenly Dom gets a Cap'.

konfetarius 11-01-2012 08:56 PM

Quote:

-No proof that particular item will hit Dominion. (Unless I missed a news article. If that's a SS from PBE Dom you need to specify.)
(the two threads are like within pixels of each other)
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...37726#30937726

You are also underselling the invulnerability effect. It is very useful for tower defense, stalling out for cooldowns for duels, and dropping focus + burning cooldowns in team fights. Not having to choose between Deathcap and Zhonaya is actually a very good lategame buff for mages.

If all your self-stasis accomplished is the fight moving away from you, you used it at a bad time.

Sakuri Ono 11-01-2012 09:00 PM

So it is. Must've missed that when I flipped through earlier.

VoidInsanity 11-01-2012 09:13 PM

It is being added to dominion because casters need that ultimate power/defence to not die to 50%+ lifesteal 300 ad bruisers in 2 hits.

Sakuri Ono 11-01-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konfetarius (Hozzászólás 30951393)
You are also underselling the invulnerability effect. It is very useful for tower defense, stalling out for cooldowns for duels, and dropping focus + burning cooldowns in team fights. Not having to choose between Deathcap and Zhonaya is actually a very good lategame buff for mages.

If all your self-stasis accomplished is the fight moving away from you, you used it at a bad time.


Correct me if I'm wrong but the duration of the invul is not able to be voluntarily ended early, right? If someone popped that on me in Dom I'd just hop on over to the nearest health pack and thank you for the free advantage for the rest of the fight (which is what most people do in this mode anyway with their stuns; that also happen to have less duration than 2.5). Assuming this was a duel. 2.5 seconds is a fairly long time to give your opponent free positioning considering everyone is generally much more mobility oriented on Dom compared to other game modes and the sheer prevalence of health packs (It's rare to have a battle site where at least one isn't withing a quick dashing range).

If I saw this item on the person defending a tower I just wouldn't assault it solo. It doesn't help against duo+'s because if the one person is enough to force you to burn it then Enemy #2 has had more than enough time to start a tower channel. (And likely 1-2 second's worth of focus on it.) Once it's triggered Enemy #1 can start up his channel; and by the time it ends approximately 5.5 seconds (2+2.5 duration Enemy 2; 1 Enemy 1 after channel is established) will have been drained from your tower.

Unless you have a very wide range AoE (assuming the enemy positions smartly for the cap) it'll take two shots to interrupt them both. By then at least 1 more second of drain will have happened from who ever you didn't hit first; bringing that up to 6.5. A tower only takes 9 seconds to neutralize; the remaining 2.5 will have likely been done by the minion wave pushed up pre-assault.

Yes; there is Garrison to consider in terms of tower regeneration but I personally think it is far more useful to have that 10% MS instead where you can at least attempt to keep a direct channel shut down by poke-and-run tactics. More damage is done to the enemy this way (making it easier for a team-mate to solo clean up if they have to) and stalling longer on your tower than you could otherwise.

I might even go so far to say that particular combo is almost a lose-lose situation. If you pop Garrison pre-Zhon then Enemy #2 will just re-channel while you're stuck being unable to do anything for that 2.5 If you Garrison post-Zhon then that's one more opening for the enemy to finish what they started (reading the enemy SS will telegraph this a mile away; the Enemy #1 has no reason to start a channel and will take the first opportunity to hit you post-Zhon).

That's just my thought line though.

Argodis 11-01-2012 09:28 PM

I liked the movespeed version better....

Westlin 11-01-2012 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argodis (Hozzászólás 30952464)
I liked the movespeed version better....

I couldn't agree more especially since movespeed is really helpful in Dom.

Orphane 11-01-2012 10:02 PM

All it's going to do is make Amumu absolutely *hilarious* at stalling out turrets.


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