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-   -   Why must toxic players ruin my games? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2740436)

AtheistGuy1 10-29-2012 01:30 PM

Why must toxic players ruin my games?
 
Yes, it's another ELO hell thread. I'm going to start off by saying that I don't blame others for my failures. If I die, it's my fault; ganked, it's my fault as well; and if I lose my lane, then I can't blame anyone but myself (If there is any blame to be placed at all).

I jumped into the solo queue as I would any other day, when I finally got a game. There were a few dodges, but that's the game. I finally got matched, and the first thing that struck me is that nobody was telling anyone else how to play (As is so unbelievably prevalent in this game). There was no "MID OR I AFK", or "BAN SHEN", no "OMFG U NOOB PICK THIS CHAMP." Nobody told anyone what to pick, where to go, or what to buy for the first half of the game. And there were no insults flung, or accusations of trolling being thrown around (among other things) because someone had the nerve to play their own way.

What happened? We kicked ass, of course! The jungler was awesome (I know how rare that is). He knew where to be, when to be there, and what to do. He even warded when I didn't have the time to. Our mid was holding his own just fine; our bottom (Kayle and Soraka) was even able to take a few turrets while they were at it.

This all went to hell the moment we took Baron. At this point, the other team had taken to grouping together to survive. What happens the moment we're caught off guard? Our mid calls us *******, and Kayle follows suit. The latter then proceeds to wander off to the sides and refuses to help us when we're being stormed (Mid to a lesser extent).

I need not tell you that we lost soon after.

ELO hell doesn't exist because of "noobs and trolls"; it exists because of the inevitable jackass that wants everyone to play the way he tells them to. This is the guy that rages, flames, and threatens to report when someone doesn't get boots right from the start, doesn't ward all the bushes without exception, or when the team has *gasp* two fighter types.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on here.

Tl;dr version: You didn't lose that ranked game because of a "noob." You lost it because of the jerk(s) chewing him out for playing his own way.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 10-29-2012 02:33 PM

The fact that one game can be lost because of whatever reason any one person decides to assign to the loss because of their own personal anecdotal evidence is not evidence for the existence of Elo hell.

In the end, this is one game. If you're not in your placement matches, this one match effected your Elo by a matter of what, 14 Elo? And I understand that this isn't the only time that this has ever happened to you. But how come, when you make this claim "Elo hell exists for X reason," the fact that X reason happens to both teams is always forgotten? Match-making could've just as easily put you on the other team in this match, and the result would be a win instead of a loss.

And why would it be a win? It'd be a win because one or two people on the enemy team started chewing their teammates out and destroyed team morale. It wouldn't be because your team played better.

And if it's because your team played better, then the reason you lost the match isn't because you were getting chewed out--it's because the other team started playing better.

You can't have it both ways. If there are losses attributed to something your teammate is doing that is negatively impacting your team, then there are (as the math will turn out to prove) 20% more matches where the win is attributed purely to something an enemy is doing that is negatively impacting the enemy team.

AtheistGuy1 10-29-2012 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
The fact that one game can be lost because of whatever reason any one person decides to assign to the loss because of their own personal anecdotal evidence is not evidence for the existence of Elo hell.

Cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
In the end, this is one game. If you're not in your placement matches, this one match effected your Elo by a matter of what, 14 Elo? And I understand that this isn't the only time that this has ever happened to you. But how come, when you make this claim "Elo hell exists for X reason," the fact that X reason happens to both teams is always forgotten?

Woah woah woah. Putting words i my mouth? I never said it doesn't happen to the other team. I'm just saying that a big reason one would lose in Ranked games, is because of these kinds of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
Match-making could've just as easily put you on the other team in this match, and the result would be a win instead of a loss.

This is fairly obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
And why would it be a win? It'd be a win because one or two people on the enemy team started chewing their teammates out and destroyed team morale. It wouldn't be because your team played better.

Well technically it's both. When team morale is eroded, their play degrades. Hence your team does actually play better; just not for the reasons one would normally think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
And if it's because your team played better, then the reason you lost the match isn't because you were getting chewed out--it's because the other team started playing better.

This bit didn't make sense to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30828411)
You can't have it both ways. If there are losses attributed to something your teammate is doing that is negatively impacting your team, then there are (as the math will turn out to prove) 20% more matches where the win is attributed purely to something an enemy is doing that is negatively impacting the enemy team.

I sense a massive run-on sentence here. I think I get what you mean, but it's taking some work.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 10-29-2012 03:17 PM

You made a post to assign blame for your losses.

I replied to assign the same credit to some of your wins.

The gist of your post is this: Elo hell exists because A happens and it causes me to lose matches.

The gist of my post is this: Elo hell doesn't exist because A happens 20% more often to the enemy team than it does to your team, therefore you end up with a win because of reason A 20% more often than you end up with a loss.

lockpooh 10-29-2012 05:01 PM

@AtheistGuy1

Don't feed the troll that is PogoPogoPogoPogo. Almost all of his posts are antagonistic in nature. Just ignore him and move along.

AtheistGuy1 10-29-2012 06:01 PM

Thanks. I will keep that in mind.

PogoPogoPogoPogo 10-29-2012 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lockpooh (Hozzászólás 30833696)
@AtheistGuy1

Don't feed the troll that is PogoPogoPogoPogo. Almost all of his posts are antagonistic in nature. Just ignore him and move along.

Statistical fact = "antagonistic in nature"


EDIT: Or perhaps I'm "antagonistic in nature" for explaining to people who believe in Elo hell that they have the Elo that they have because that's how good they are, not because of some mystic system designed to keep you at low Elo.

lockpooh 10-29-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo (Hozzászólás 30836101)
Statistical fact = "antagonistic in nature"


EDIT: Or perhaps I'm "antagonistic in nature" for explaining to people who believe in Elo hell that they have the Elo that they have because that's how good they are, not because of some mystic system designed to keep you at low Elo.

Yes, that must be it.

/dev/null is 98% full

AtheistGuy1 10-30-2012 01:19 PM

What?

Righteousmoo 10-30-2012 02:54 PM

You know. It's actually sad. I went from almost the 1000 elos down to the low 800s, Solely because of Kids, Trolls, and DCs. I have performed very well in my ranked matches with a few screw ups being my fault. I as well have trouble getting out of ELO hell. My last ranked match we started around 40-15. DC half way through, crushed end game and lost. Twice in a row.

If you look at the match making system. I have faced a full team of Honorable opponents, where my team consisted of the first timers. Now, I know honorable doesn't always mean good. But it's supposed to show a level of play that lets people know you kinda know what your doing. Honestly, As always, I think the match making system has a big part to play in ELO hell. Just a thought.


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