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-   Twisted Treeline (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
-   -   1 Altar? 0 Altars? Speedbuff, no speedbuff? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2727641)

Turtle Omega 10-26-2012 08:52 AM

1 Altar? 0 Altars? Speedbuff, no speedbuff?
 
Unlike a lot of threads that have been posted recently, to which I might add, are from completely random players that have never even frequented the forum until they decided to QQ, I enjoy it when Riot tries to make new types of games, with different objectives, such as the New Twisted Treeline, opposed to the same old, "Kill the tower, take the nexus" gameplay. One issue I found here was that while the old Twisted Treeline had its obvious flaws and was generally broken (Note that generally lower ELO in 3s state it wasn't broken, while higher ELO have pretty much unanimously agreed it was), the new Twisted Treeline simply has too many objectives.

To have a perfect game, you must multi-manage farming, killing, capturing altars, securing/protecting vilemaw, pushing towers, and ganking other lanes, all at the same time. Riot has openly expressed that they also are aiming to make games much more fast paced. I haven't gotten too much into the new map, due to school, but the few games I have played it seemed obvious-- To manage all of these things at once, you would need an extreme amount of coordination, and luck. This is probably why people are so upset with the new changes, because you can't possibly defend an altar while defending a tower, among many other scenarios.

While I feel that the map needs definite changes, I enjoy the new type of gameplay Twisted Treeline has introduced, and that it is on the right steps. Perhaps just making one altar at the center of the map? Or removing them all together.

I completely disagree with re-implementing wards. The only people who complain about it are the ones who have grown to the safety they provide, and can easily survive after making stupid players. Now, without wards, the entire map is just gank central, and players have the same attitude that they would have with wards-- Extreme amounts of facechecking, no map awareness, and a general ignorance that shadows over many LoL players. Taking out wards doesn't change the game, it simply forces the players to be more aware of their surroundings, and make smarter choices based off them.

The speed buff, I think, should not be there. Being right next to both altars, an enemy team could easily capture both altars by the time you respawn, with the speed buff. If Riot's direction is to make a smaller, more compact map filled with fighting and conflict, then I would have to disagree with having the speed buff implemented.


Riot has openly announced that the new Twisted Treeline is still in Beta, and that they are watching closely about how the players feel about the game. One thing that just astounds me from the population of Twisted Treeline players is how everything went from constructive and beneficial opinions, to blatant and immature complaining about the changes made. While the old Twisted Treeline was obviously broken, players would post threads here, giving detailed information about the changes they suggested to fixing it, and actually made me want to associate with Twisted Treeline's community. Now? All I see is a bunch of crying babies who can't deal with changes.

So please, for God's sake, can we just have a constructive thread detailing our issues and concerns for the fate of Twisted Treeline, not just some persistent crying that Riot probably veers away from? Thanks. I've stated my opinions above, and definitely don't want to revert to the old Twisted Treeline. I wasn't the best player in it, but I could tell that from this point on, Twisted Treeline will only improve. What are your opinions, and why?

Turtle Omega 10-26-2012 08:56 AM

Just as a tiny note, I'd encourage you to look at this thread, a petition for creating the old Twisted Treeline as a separate map: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2694690

The petition has gotten quite a few people following it, and the only real concern Riot has for re-implementing the old Twisted Treeline, on top of the new one, is that there is a population issue, and they don't want to split up the population any more than they have to. Just a tiny upvote, or a post in the thread would help them a great amount.

OnlyBotLane 10-26-2012 09:14 AM

I think a problem you haven't addressed (maybe because you don't think it is a problem) is that jungle is far too easy. With the jungle being able to be cleared so quickly AND with a speedshrine in the middle it is so so easy to gank. Even if the laner knows it is coming it can be impossible to stop especially if they are playing a squishy champ and combined with wards being removed. I totally agree they cannot be added. The map is far far far too small. 1 ward and you see everything all game.

The issue I have with this isn't that you need more map awareness or w/e that is all fine. The issue I have with it is it makes a jungler required (especially because of altars) and basically makes ranged AD impossible to play. With a jungler required there is no way to have a support which makes it very tough to lane as most ADs, even the ones with escapes.

In relation to the part about there being too many objectives I think I cna add something to this. Not only are there too many objectives, some are way better choices than others to take to a point where it is pointless to take certain ones at certain parts of the game in a way that is far worse than "leave the inhibitors up unitl you can win" from the old map.

The major one is Vilemaw imo. It is almost impossible to get without getting caught and killed early on in the game mostly due to it's position on the map, the short respawn timers and the small size of the map (if they dont see you in mid or in bot you are doing vilemaw). Not only this but it is also not as important as the altars because the buff is not as strong so even if you do take it if you reliquish the altars then you are doing yourself more harm than good.

I have more to say but I will do it later. It's late and I think I'm writing weird. Oh something I will add now is that jungling/ganking being so easy will cause higher level play to be passive and lower level play to be messy at best.

Turtle Omega 10-26-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnlyBotLane (Hozzászólás 30707941)
I think a problem you haven't addressed (maybe because you don't think it is a problem) is that jungle is far too easy. With the jungle being able to be cleared so quickly AND with a speedshrine in the middle it is so so easy to gank. Even if the laner knows it is coming it can be impossible to stop especially if they are playing a squishy champ and combined with wards being removed. I totally agree they cannot be added. The map is far far far too small. 1 ward and you see everything all game.

The issue I have with this isn't that you need more map awareness or w/e that is all fine. The issue I have with it is it makes a jungler required (especially because of altars) and basically makes ranged AD impossible to play. With a jungler required there is no way to have a support which makes it very tough to lane as most ADs, even the ones with escapes.

In relation to the part about there being too many objectives I think I cna add something to this. Not only are there too many objectives, some are way better choices than others to take to a point where it is pointless to take certain ones at certain parts of the game in a way that is far worse than "leave the inhibitors up unitl you can win" from the old map.

The major one is Vilemaw imo. It is almost impossible to get without getting caught and killed early on in the game mostly due to it's position on the map, the short respawn timers and the small size of the map (if they dont see you in mid or in bot you are doing vilemaw). Not only this but it is also not as important as the altars because the buff is not as strong so even if you do take it if you reliquish the altars then you are doing yourself more harm than good.

I have more to say but I will do it later. It's late and I think I'm writing weird. Oh something I will add now is that jungling/ganking being so easy will cause higher level play to be passive and lower level play to be messy at best.

I do have to agree with you on this subject. There is a real weird thing going on with jungling at the moment, and it is clear that a jungler is absolutely essential with the new implementations of altars and vilemaw. All three different jungle spawns really do require much effort at all to kill, and it allows pretty much anyone to jungle, and give plenty of time to gank. I would not oppose the idea of higher some of the mobs stats, such as the golems.

I'm sorry, but I'm just going to have to disagree with you on the point of Vilemaw being a major issue. It's one completely new concept created, and I believe it will give Twisted Treeline the distinction it desperately needs to call it its own map. Because the map has only been recently released for its Beta, it will take players some time to become adjusted to the gameplay and style. I agree that some things need to be revamped/removed because there are simply too many things needed to do all at once, but Vilemaw should stay as is. The problem here could be that past Twisted Treeline players simply view it as the replacement for Ebonmaw, and do not take it as seriously as it should be. Vilemaw has better stats than Baron, and with Baron, a team would rarely try to take it unless the enemy team is out of place, or are dead. I am sure similar strategies will adapt with Vilemaw, and that it will just take some time.

As for the new jungle creating passive play with higher ELO and messy play with lower, I would have to disagree as well. With key objectives on the map, it is absolutely essential for teams to coordinate aggressively in order to capture and maintain the points. To play passive would only be granting your defeat. As for lower ELO, it is generally messier, but again, coordination and aggressive gameplay are key.

Keegstar 10-26-2012 12:08 PM

You have literally NO idea what you are talking about.

Nykidemus 10-26-2012 12:15 PM

Yeah, I dont really like having so many objectives. Just dragon is fine.

Keegstar 10-26-2012 12:21 PM

i dont think Omega get that this is not TT anymore. this map is not about being in lane and playing and SR type game with 3 people. that was the draw, thats why we loved it. you didnt/dont play it enough to know, again i looked you up when you came talking **** on my post then ran when i put up good reasons top players dont like it. this is just a dominion knock off.

Taarki 10-26-2012 12:49 PM

old map with "wider" choke points would be perfect

rlchardtoucher 10-26-2012 01:01 PM

I think there ARE too many objectives/components. Vilemaw is cool, but it's also very isolated from the rest of the map. Having no other objectives or jungle in the top jungle makes it very obvious when a team is attempting Vilemaw.

Here's what I'd do, after playing like three games on the new TT: Make two speed shrines, where the altars are currently. Put one altar in the middle where the speed shrine is. Put the other altar directly in front of where Vilemaw is. Capturing (or fighting near) this altar draws Vilemaw aggro.

This gives more weight to the top of the map, and gives the jungler or duo laners bot a reason to ever leave bot lane/mid jungle. It makes fights for the top altar more fun and engaging and scary, knowing that even if it's a one v one between top-laners, the Vilemaw aggro can change the fight. It focuses the fighting to the middle of the map, instead of forcing chases side-to-side (which just become about who gets to the speed shrine first to escape). It moves the altars away from the turrets, which gives less protection and forces a more all-in fight for them. It will promote earlier and more frequent Vilemaw attempts, since kills and team fights on the top altar will provide immediate and fun chances at Vilemaw.

Diskings 10-26-2012 01:02 PM

Coming from someone who has frequented the TT forums for a while, I have never seen YOU (Turtle Omega) so don't talk about other's not frequenting these forums.


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