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-   -   Understanding the Tribunal (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2726400)

Lyte 10-26-2012 12:33 AM

Understanding the Tribunal
 
Lately, I've been receiving a lot of e-mails about the same questions and complaints about the Tribunal. I'm working with WookieCookie, RiotSeb and statuskwoh to add these to the Tribunal FAQs but we would love to discuss them here first.

1) What's the point of having a language filter if I can get banned for 'adult' language?
a) We aren't out to punish players who use adult language; in fact, very few players are ever banned for saying stuff like "f***, I missed that skill shot" or "damn, f***ing close game!" However, the language filter is not an excuse to verbally abuse someone in the game. When you verbally abuse or harass someone by calling them "f***ing ******" or "n*gger noob", that's when you've crossed the line and will be punished by the Tribunal. I've said this before and I'll say it again, we aren't trying to clean online games of adult language; we're trying to reform or get rid of jerks who like to verbally abuse and harass other players.

2) I only have 1 bad game in my Tribunal Reform Card, why am I banned???
a) The Tribunal verdict is not based on a 'majority' rule; there is also no requirement that all games have to be toxic for it to warrant a suspension. Depending on the case, sometimes 1 game is all that is needed to show that the player deserves a suspension. To Tribunal reviewers, decisions like these are up to you. When you view a Tribunal case, the questions you should ask yourselves are, "Is this player's behavior appropriate in League of Legends?" and "Would I want to play with this player?"

3) This player should have been banned, but he was pardoned. The Tribunal is broken!
a) The Tribunal was inspired by 'crowdsourcing' research. When I was still a student, I worked with labs that developed games such as "Foldit" that took advantage of crowdsourcing to find solutions to extremely tricky tasks--when you read this research you truly appreciate how accurate crowdsourcing systems can be. In fact, the Tribunal is far more accurate than traditional Player Support.

However, the Tribunal isn't perfect. The design is based on statistical probability and random sampling and every system like this has outliers. This means that sometimes, a player has an egregious Tribunal case but is still pardoned because he happened to get a lenient set of voters; however, if the player is truly toxic, he actually is re-sent back to the Tribunal in a handful of games and is usually accurately punished in his second visit to the Tribunal.

Because the Tribunal is designed to identify frequency and consistency of toxic behavior, this is why it doesn't take into account the severity of the offense. If a player is extremely toxic he will quickly get banned multiple times by the Tribunal until he is permabanned; in fact, extremely toxic players end up permabanned significantly faster than players who are 'less severe.' In the future, we may want to brainstorm ways to improve on the Tribunal so that it does take into account severity and adjusts punishments accordingly... but we're not there yet.

4) That player in my game was far worse than me. Why am I banned???
a) I'll keep this one simple: retaliation isn't OK. Reacting to a toxic player by being toxic just incites that player to be even worse--it also ruins the game for up to 8 other players. It is far, far worse to watch two people yelling at each other all game than it is to watch 1 player ranting into blank space. Almost everyone in the game can find someone out there that behaves worse than they do--but so what? Finding someone worse doesn't justify your behavior or justify retaliation. We expect more out of our players. What players often don't realize is... those other players in your game that you thought were worse? Nearly 100% of the time, those players were banned even before you were. If someone is being toxic, just report them and move on. If you retaliate, both of you will be banned. It's really that simple.

5) Low skill players should be banned from the game! The Tribunal should only ban Leavers/AFK and intentional feeders, those are the only types of players that really ruin games!
a) No. Just no. Jerks ruin games. League of Legends is for everyone whether they are 500 Elo or 2500 Elo. It's not a game for jerks.

junkadorino 10-26-2012 12:37 AM

Thank you for sticking to your guns and clarifying things, Tribunal team. You're doing something really cool, and it warms my heart to see you continuing to fight the good fight despite the hoards of entitled rage-gamers demanding their right to ruin other people's experiences back. Thank you, thank you, a thousand times, thank you!

A Giant Boulder 10-26-2012 12:41 AM

edit: ignoring the trolls

Onto more constructive notes. Thanks for clarifying a lot of these points. I've always felt the Tribunal could use a bit more transparency or easy access to information regarding it. Obviously you can't reveal everything, but an updated FAQ is a great start. Definitely some big moves forward from when the Tribunal didn't even have a proper link to it.

Nurbutt 10-26-2012 12:42 AM

When you just read a chat when you are playing you are choosing to read what i have typed just like you are choosing to read it now. There is no difference. So if what someone is typing is offending you then stop reading what they type. It is that simple. But that is not the point of the tribunal the tribunal is a way for Riot to get away with not doing their job. Plain and simple. You are relying on kids literally kids to decide punishment over other so you dont have to waste funds yourselves. Thats the facts. Its all about the money.

junkadorino 10-26-2012 12:42 AM

Lyte loves you too, man. No doubt.

Gallabatorix 10-26-2012 12:43 AM

i have to disagree with you. what ruins the game is people that troll the game. if you mean by jerks the people doing verbal abuse. thats not what ruins the game. from my personal experience what ruins the game is when people intentionally make you lose for whatever reason. it may be that they didnt like what you said or what champion you picked or they wanted middle. verbal abuse is a smaller aspect to what makes the game toxic. in fact i say that most verbal abuse cases are cause by the trolls and you are banned because the trolls get you banned. most trolls say nothing in chat you understand this? you have so many options to deal with verbal abuse but not with trolls. you have ignore button. but if you leave a game because someone pretends they are bad and are intentionally feeding and you can tell. this is what makes the game bad. i can listen to people cuss me out all day. what ruins my experience is trolls. even as you said i will quote this is your main problem.
"Innocent players were very rarely banned, while toxic players more often went unpunished. Because of this, we’ve adjusted the Tribunal algorithms to be less lenient."
Basically you are saying you punished innocent players when they were trolled like i said before by the people that just say nothing. you punish the people getting frustrated. this is a flawed business strategy. i dont know where you received you degree but i am worried you understand nothing about games at all. Games are my life since i was 6 and i am now 24 so i know a little of what i am talking about and the behavior involved in a video game. your game is the only game that advocates trolls and worries more about verbal abuse than people actually ruining the gameplay. focus on getting rid of the trolls then worry about the people that are harassing others. there are options to deal with harassment. i mean its a game after all. if you take what people say seriously from a video game your not in a good place anyway and need to rethink your life.

Gallabatorix 10-26-2012 12:45 AM

Please enlighten me lyte.

Lyte 10-26-2012 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurbutt (Hozzászólás 30696757)
When you just read a chat when you are playing you are choosing to read what i have typed just like you are choosing to read it now. There is no difference. So if what someone is typing is offending you then stop reading what they type. It is that simple. But that is not the point of the tribunal the tribunal is a way for Riot to get away with not doing their job. Plain and simple. You are relying on kids literally kids to decide punishment over other so you dont have to waste funds yourselves. Thats the facts. Its all about the money.

First, keep it constructive.

Secondly, I have no idea why people assume having a Tribunal is 'cheaper' for Riot. It's more expensive. We still have a full Player Support team that reviews Tribunal cases and we also have a full development team that has to maintain the Tribunal and develop new features for it.

If you want to argue about the Tribunal, let's have a discussion about it. Randomly saying it is cheaper or it's about money is basically the opposite of the truth.

Gallabatorix 10-26-2012 12:50 AM

So you are saying because it would cost a little to make a replay system similar to starcraft is expensive and not worth investing in cause it costs extra when it would root out more toxic players than the current system?.

ThereRnoIDs 10-26-2012 12:51 AM

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2712939

Pls look at my case. No matter how many times I look over and over, I just can't agree with this ban.

Game 1 I never afked and had more reports from the enemy than my own team and saying surrender 1 2 times out of a 25 minute game is absolutely bs.

I know I'vehad worse xlcases before where iI feel bad and guilty one game out of 3 but this one feel absolutely "none". And being banned 1 week for these 3 games is plain stupid.

I never afked, people that report can make up first bs and tribunals would believe it.
Game 2 we lost badly cause of Ali and shen
Game 3 ww was trolling all game even saying report brand for not taking red...

Oh and Yeh its been 4days since my ticket and auto reponse


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