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-   Twisted Treeline (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=49)
-   -   Twisted Dominionline (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2701225)

Nicksiren 10-19-2012 08:42 PM

Twisted Dominionline
 
I'll try to keep this brief.

- I dig the new look/sound/atmosphere of map.

- I can deal with some of the new layout, but having absolutely NO jungle/paths above top lane is a problem. This removes the tactical nature of doing Vilemaw as there is only one glaringly obvious path to him (from each side). He also does not move/chase making stealing the buff incredibly easy. There needs to be more paths above top lane for counter-play and juking. Mid jungle bush/wall changes are OK for the most part, although it's hard to say at this point. Also, I miss bot lane bush being at the bottom side of the lane :(

- Mid jungle camps seem good, although it's too early to say how they will pan out.

- Thicker wall beside nexus is nice. Maybe we'll see some ward-teleport backdooring? :D

- Oh wait, no wards... This is a big deal for me. Old TT was all about keeping vision on paths to find optimal team positioning. And I thought Teemo was bad to face on old Treeline...

- Altars look and sound AWESOME when capping. However... I do not find they fit on Treeline at all. They completely change the dynamic of the gameplay and focus capping the (currently overpowered) buffs above all else. They are essentially the same caliber of importance as going for the old TT dragon, even though we already have Vilemaw. Old red buff gave a single person an advantage for ganking and chasing, perfect for a skirmish-oriented game type -- that was it. I do not feel that balancing the strength of the team-wide altar buffs will change this. Apart from the change of focus, the snowballing effect these create is just incredible.

- Too early to say how new items will be. Same goes for the powerful new consumables. Mundo doesn't like the lack of Warmog's and the new Wicked Hatched! D:

- New amount of starting gold seems... weird. Just enough for boots + Doran's, but no pots. Why was this even changed? For now, I prefer the old amount of starting gold.

- Speed buff is unnecessary. I cannot stress enough I really, really do not like the idea of having a speed shrine. Team fights are prevalent enough on this map and this just makes ganks stronger and easier. The speed buff clutters mid map and puts an awkward focus of fighting on top of it instead of in lanes. It's been said by others but this really makes it feel similar to Dominion.

Non gameplay-wise:

- This map gives me absolutely atrocious FPS even at minimum settings. It was said there were a bunch of adjustments made under the hood to make it more efficient and Riot tests showed higher FPS than old map but... how is this true? If the FPS count isn't improved by release then regardless of how I feel about the TT changes I simply cannot skillfully play it.

EDIT: This issue has been addressed for some players in a recent patch. It is unknown if all issues were properly addressed, however.

In conclusion:

Since the vast majority of my play time has been with Twisted Treeline I feel very strongly about these changes. Quite simply, I find these changes make new TT play much more similarly to Dominion. I do not find it plays anything like the old TT and I frankly do not like this. I dig the effort put into making it more presentable, however the changes make it a completely different game mode. I understand Riot does not want to fracture the community by adding another game map (which is why they are replacing the old TT with this) but seriously: this does NOT feel like Twisted Treeline at all!

Twisted Treeline used to be like a more condensed version of Summoner's Rift -- I stress this. There were similar tactics yet it was more skirmish oriented. Removing wards, putting focus on new objectives, and certain layout changes only serve to further it from what used to make TT fun. Heck, there's a reason Twisted Treeline is located under "classic" as opposed to another game mode like Dominion. Please make this right, Riot.

Cheers.

Note: I do not hate Dominion and never said I did. My point is this new Twisted Treeline forgets why the old one was fun and puts focus on things that are not needed for a TT experience. My point is not that this new TT plays identical to Dominion but rather that it takes many cues from it, which in turn causes this new TT to lose focus of what once made the mode so exciting and unique.

fiddlesticksssss 10-19-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicksiren (Hozzászólás 30437293)
I'll try to keep this brief.

- I dig the new look/sound/atmosphere of map.

- I can deal with some of the new layout, but having absolutely NO jungle/paths above top lane is a problem. This removes the tactical nature of doing Vilemaw as there is only one glaringly obvious path to him (from each side). He also does not move/chase making stealing the buff incredibly easy. There needs to be more paths above top lane for counter-play and juking. Mid bush/wall changes are OK for the most part, although it's hard to say at this point. Also, I miss bot lane bush being at the bottom side of the lane :(

- Mid jungle camps seem good, although it's too early to say right now how they will pan out.

- Thicker wall beside nexus is nice. Maybe we'll see some ward-teleport backdooring? :D

- Oh wait, no wards... This is a big deal for me. Old TT was all about keeping vision on paths to find optimal team positioning.

- Altars look and sound AWESOME when capping. However I do not find they fit on Treeline at all. They completely change the dynamic of the gameplay and focus capping the (currently overpowered) buffs above all else. They are essentially the same caliber of importance as going for the old dragon or a baron, even though we already have Vilemaw. Old red buff gave a single person an advantage for ganking and chasing, perfect for a skirmish-oriented game type -- that was it. I do not feel that balancing the strength of the altar buffs will change this.

- Speed buff is unnecessary. I cannot stress enough I really, really do not like the idea of having a speed shrine. Team fights are prevalent enough on this map and this just makes ganks stronger and easier. The speed buff clutters mid map and puts an awkward focus of fighting on top of it instead of in lanes. It's been said before, but this really makes it feel like Dominion.

Non gameplay-wise:

- This map gives me absolutely atrocious FPS even at minimum settings. It was said there were a bunch of adjustments made under the hood to make it more efficient and Riot tests showed higher FPS than old map but... how is this true? If the FPS count isn't improved by release then regardless of how I feel about the TT changes I simply cannot skillfully play it.

In conclusion:

Since the vast majority of my play time has been with Twisted Treeline I feel very strongly about these changes. Quite simple, I find these changes make the new TT more and more like dominion. I do not find it plays anything like the old TT and I frankly do not like this. I dig the effort put into making it more presentably, however the changes make it a completely different game mode. I understand Riot does not want to fracture the community by adding another game map (which is why they are replacing the old TT with this) but seriously: this does NOT feel like Twisted Treeline at all!

Twisted Treeline used to be like a more condensed version of Summoner's Rift. There were similar tactics yet it was more skirmish oriented. Removing wards, putting focus on new objectives, and certain layout changes only serve to further it from what used to make TT fun. Heck, there's a reason Twisted Treeline is located under "classic" as opposed to another game mode like Dominion. Please make this right, Riot.

Cheers.

Honestly, you and i and a bunch of other people agree. Those shrines destroy everything about TT and try to bring in that ****ty gamestyle called dominion. I do love all the new changes except them, and the fact that there is almost no juking because there are bushes for you to run in a straight line and escape. I would rather have alters removed, and instead put 2 buffs above top lane. Then bring back a form of sight other than lantern and hextech sweeper. This would bring back old TT playstyle, but also add in all the new stuff, that balance what old TT could not.

Edit: also i really don't like vilemaw buff that much. Attack speed and cooldown is nice, but nothing like dragon. I wouldn't mind have 10% extra damage from killing his hard ass instead of that, however there are mixed opinions about that, so i won't push it.

Nicksiren 10-19-2012 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicksiren (Hozzászólás 30437293)
Heck, there's a reason Twisted Treeline is located under "classic" as opposed to another game mode like Dominion. Please make this right, Riot.

inb4 Riot releases Twisted Treeline under a separate game mode tab.

Nicksiren 10-19-2012 09:37 PM

Bump. Updated a few things as well. Please post your thoughts!! I'd like to get as much light shed on this thread as possible so Riot takes notice, thanks.

Venova 10-19-2012 10:48 PM

Let me sum up what seems to be a majority of the sentiments:

We love the new map
We love the old map
We want them both, not one replacing the other - at least keep the "old" TT available as a custom game option. No matchmaking, keep that for the new TT/SI map, since it would be confusing to newer players to encounter 2 versions of the "same" map, and keeping the old TT as custom would prevent fracturing because most people will probably play the new map. But the old one can stay there for customs for dedicated the TT communtity who loves the map.

Krshna 10-19-2012 11:11 PM

You'll get used to the altars. They are good, because they encourage pure teamfighting. Even moreso than Dominion. There is no tower taking any shots. They exist purely to give a reason to teamfight early, as opposed to the old lane/gank setup.

There will still, of course, be laning and ganking. But there will also be periods where the teams gather and fight over these neutral objectives.

All they do is increase the action, give a focal point to the battle.

Don't let your blind hatred for Dominion make anything that is semi-Dominion-esque get thrown out just cause it's cool to be anti-Dominion.

Listen, I don't play Dominion either. I don't hate it, but I also don't think it's anything that special. I for one, think it's a good place to try a champion for the first time. That's about all, but to each their own. But there's a sad trend on these forums of Dominion bashing, just cause everyone else does it, and cause it gives you a reference point of something to feel like you are better than. Which is bad.

They altars really aren't that bad, but people are going to outrage over them to look cool.

blindasleep 10-19-2012 11:12 PM

I think I found the underlying problem with this "remake", and why so many love or hate it. One team in charge of three maps just screams for them to be more alike so that a fix for one works elsewhere. That way they can be more efficient or lazy depending which side of the argument you land on. In the end it just makes everything less varied and more boring. "Chose one of these two very different maps for your break from SR, or this one that is the offspring of an unexpected three-way between the other maps!" It's like the hot girl from the inbred family it looks pretty and it might be a lot of fun to play with for a while, but then you realize that she doesn't have the brains (strategy requirements) some of her less eye catching relatives, but having fewer gag reflexes (champs in play) may be novel enough that you and your friends will kick around with her now and then.

fiddlesticksssss 10-19-2012 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krshna (Hozzászólás 30441571)
You'll get used to the altars. They are good, because they encourage pure teamfighting. Even moreso than Dominion. There is no tower taking any shots. They exist purely to give a reason to teamfight early, as opposed to the old lane/gank setup.

There will still, of course, be laning and ganking. But there will also be periods where the teams gather and fight over these neutral objectives.

All they do is increase the action, give a focal point to the battle.

Don't let your blind hatred for Dominion make anything that is semi-Dominion-esque get thrown out just cause it's cool to be anti-Dominion.

Listen, I don't play Dominion either. I don't hate it, but I also don't think it's anything that special. I for one, think it's a good place to try a champion for the first time. That's about all, but to each their own. But there's a sad trend on these forums of Dominion bashing, just cause everyone else does it, and cause it gives you a reference point of something to feel like you are better than. Which is bad.

They altars really aren't that bad, but people are going to outrage over them to look cool.

Its not really dominion. Right now its in beta, and right now those altars you speak of, have a higher priority than vilemaw and dragon on old TT combined. You get a little extra gold that over time makes a huge mass, and of course a free dragon buff for eternity until you lose one altar. That is the main problem. However riot was thinking of ditching old TT in general, and putting this new and improved version in. The map without altars is AMAZING with a few added areas "top jungle" and it will be the TT we never had. However since there are those altars, and that speed altar, it really just destroys everything TT. That is the main problem. With those 2 in there it flat out destroys it. You say it causes fights? I haven't had 1 old TT game without atleast 10-20 fights. The only difference is that once you win a fight on new TT its gg, you will snowball. Who needs 10-20 fights? You can win in 5 just from pure altar ass raping.

FossaFerox 10-20-2012 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiddlesticksssss (Hozzászólás 30442257)
You say it causes fights? I haven't had 1 old TT game without atleast 10-20 fights. The only difference is that once you win a fight on new TT its gg, you will snowball. Who needs 10-20 fights? You can win in 5 just from pure altar ass raping.

This.

Old TT every fight mattered. Here a bad engage at level 2 decides the game.

It shouldn't be possible to throw the game two minutes into it and create an insurmountable advantage for the other team by losing your shrine at the start, but it does.

More to the point, having to constantly fight over shrines means the laning phase is almost nonexistant, and it's a lane based map. Such bull. It seriously feels like Dominion, which is to say it feels worse than HoN or DotA 2.

Infirc 10-20-2012 06:47 AM

Finally a comprehensive post without rage and knee-jerk reactions (asides from trolling downvoters and people posting their personal knee jerk reactions as answers).


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