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-   -   Rehaul Points System to incentivize proper play (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2669958)

chzyken 10-12-2012 01:23 AM

Rehaul Points System to incentivize proper play
 
For high ELO players, points and the ranking in Dom are pretty meaningless. They do not reflect proper dominion play or emphasize the right objectives. In lower ELO, this tends to encourage high-points play which actually can result in a loss.

This is my suggestion for a point system rehaul. Some might suggest the best idea is to remove points entirely, But thats not very creative is it xP.

So, here are my ideas. Feedback would be great.

-Every player starts with 500 points.

-Losing any of your team's 3 points (Top, Your mid, Your bot): -60 points to every player on your team. An additional 60 points are lost if the enemy fully caps any of these points.

-Recapturing any of these same 3 points (Includes initial capture): +50 points to entire team upon completing capture. No points are given on decapture alone

-Capturing opponent teams mid or bot: +25 points to entire team on decap. +25 additional points on cap

-For every halfsecond you spend decapping/capping a point: +2 points/ halfsecond

-Every champion kill: +20 points to killer. +10 points are distributed amongst assists.
-Every death: -30 points to the person who died.

-Your entire team gets +5 points every 5 seconds for each point your team holds.

-You get +5 points every 5 seconds you defend top, your mid, enemy mid, enemy bot

-You get +8 points every 5 seconds you are the only one defending your bot. If there are 2 people, it is split +5 for each person. 3 = +3.3 etc

You get 10 points everytime you disrupt a decap or cap

Your final # of remaining nexus health is added to your score.

Other preexisting metrics like CS, assisting teammates, storm shield, heals, arent as directly important for winning game. They should remain pretty low.

For those of you who know how to play dominion, you should notice that these points changes are directed at the most important goal: hold onto your 3 points and never lose it. Recapping doesnt let you break even. You should not have to recap in the first place if you hold well. Your team receives constant points for holding points, and you receive points for defense. So don't lose your point. Bot gets more points if he is soloing. Lets give bot some <3

Kills grant points, but only a small amount. Deaths cost you a lot more points. Don't die. But if you die defending a point for many seconds and interrupt the enemy many times, you'll easily make up for it.

Dunno what you think about these ideas. Since the biggest point changers affect your whole team, the game probably ends with similar scores across the whole score board. So points are still relatively meaningless. But thats ok! because at least the proper objectives are incentivized.

Perhaps we can even take the call of duty sound ping to go off everytime you score points. There is nothing as satisfying as that sound.

MyDeadGrandma 10-12-2012 01:49 AM

Remove points. You shouldn't be in competition with your own teammates.

Orphane 10-12-2012 01:52 AM

How is this...better...than the current system?

Hint: it isn't. You're awarding an arbitrary number of points for actions which have dynamic relevancy at any given point in the game. Who are you to decide what actions in the game ultimately contributed to a victory and which didn't by randomly throwing points around?

Kiddalee 10-12-2012 02:45 AM

Personal Score is Riot's failed attempt at teaching noobs how to play Dominion. They need to get rid of Personal Score and make a tutorial.

Sakuri Ono 10-12-2012 04:13 AM

I'm going to ignore the points thing for now; just because there are some problems in your core theory that need addressed. Apologies if it sounds harsh; there's just a lot to be said and I tend to come off as snarky when I attempt matter-of-fact tones. XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by chzyken (Hozzászólás 30140694)

Other preexisting metrics like CS, assisting teammates, storm shield, heals, arent as directly important for winning game. They should remain pretty low.

Let me take these on one by one.

CS: Anyone who has played Bot lane should know that CS can actually be crucial to winning a game. Odds are if you're fairly well matched up the Bot lane will be frozen mid-field until a gank comes along to shift the balance of power. Because of this your kill count will be extremely low, in a game that already has a reduced gold per kill ratio. With Top laners constantly engaging in team fights and gaining gold from both kills and constant tower captures/neutralizations; Bot can fall behind quite easily.

Unless they're adept at CSing. CS is the difference between a strong Bot lane and one that crumples. Every minion wave gives out +120G (pretty sure it's +30 for smalls and +60 for siege; might be wrong, at the very most 2 Minion Waves > 1 Kill) if you last hit everything in it. 20 more gold than a Kill. So CS is a very crucial part of winning Dominion because if your Bot lane is weak from missing income then the enemy team won't even have to waste topside resources coming down to gank. (Where as conversely your team will constantly have to create a 3v4 disadvantage as someone will have to babysit Bot.)

Assisting Teammates: This is also something highly crucial to winning Dominion. Assisting Teammates includes things like Speed Buffing and Shielding.Two primary examples can come just from one champion; Orianna. Her W creates a temporary speed buff, an 'assisting teammate'; which can help get your team to a location far faster than your enemy, help close range for a kill before an out of position enemy can reach the base, or help your weakened team mate escape a gank/fight gone bad by both speeding them up and slowing them down.

Also her shield helps with the anti-gank mentioned above. But it also provides an extra barrier of health for your initiators during team fights and tower dives. The longer that turret can be soaked up the greater the chance you have of winning that all important late-game fight where it comes down to 'all or nothing'.

Healing: I think any team I've gotten to play Sona with, in a good composition, would highly disagree that healing is not a win-factor. Yes, Dominion does have that Heal-lowering Debuff. However that makes healing all the more important because really what that penalizes the most is health regeneration. When you're at the end of one of those 3v3+ skirmishes, come out of it highly damaged, and know the enemy team's on their way back full team due to a pack of Revives; guess what you really need on your side?

This is because, even though there are health packs in Dominion, they only can heal one individual at any section of the map at a time. And even then only for a portion of their health. Sustained healing can be the difference between a group B-ing and hoping their one, partially healed, defender can hold off 1v4 for the 20-25 seconds it takes to full heal up and run back; or a group staying to fight the 4v4 again with the aid of a turret (a feasible battle if healing has regained over 50% of the group's health).

It's not for every group composition, or every game of Dominion, but that's no reason to lower it to the 'Pft; whatever.' Tier because when it works; it turns tides.

Storm Shield: This one I will agree isn't as 'valuable' of an assets as the other three; but I would disagree it isn't an integral part of winning. It just tends to get overshadowed because people generally don't know how to use it properly. The Storm Shield is a buff that requires every one to know 'when' to grab it, 'why' to grab it, and 'who' should grab it. But because not very many people do the SS either gets under-used or is used to far lesser effect than its true potential.

The SS is a tool that can virtually negate the Turret's advantage in a 4v4+Turret scenario (not counting Garrison under the assumption that it's on CD). Personally I prefer it to go either to our initiator or a long-range poker with a DoT style of damage. For Initiators it provides a sliver of extra damage but it's mostly the shield that makes it valuable. As I said before; soaking up hits during an end-game base assault is pretty much the determining factor for whether you win or lose those all important fights.

But personally I think the SS really shines for mid-game assaults when carried by a proper DoT poker. For this example I'll use Brand. Assuming you're trying to take Windmill and it's a 4v4. No one wants to hard initiate because everyone's at full health and Garrison isn't up yet. So the pre-assault poking begins. Brand's Q and W allows for some nice harass; however the all important thing here is his passive. His passive DoT procs actually trigger SS's effect. Because of this not only are Brand's own abilities weakening the enemy defense but that SS is literally ticking as fast as it can; almost constantly. Combined this creates a situation where the enemy either has to abandon the point or initiate off the point, as Brand can literally take them down to the point where your team could just storm in unorganized and wipe out their defenses.

A well timed, well placed SS is pretty much the ultimate 'bunker buster' tool on the Dominion map.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chzyken (Hozzászólás 30140694)
For those of you who know how to play dominion, you should notice that these points changes are directed at the most important goal: hold onto your 3 points and never lose it.

Recapping doesnt let you break even. You should not have to recap in the first place if you hold well.

These right here are two of the biggest Dominion 'myths' there are. I will explain.

Yes, the goal is to own more bases than your opponent. However you should never plan a game around holding a specific set of three. The reason for this is direction tied into the thought-line of 'not having to recap if you play well' being incorrect.

This is because of what I call the game theory of 'Rotational Offense'.

Say you win the initial Windmill fight and Bot lane is frozen. You'll have likely two defenders up top (one hidden, one pressing the minion wave partially), one in the jungle, one on Bot, and the other either heading to gank or going up top depending on where you think the enemy is going.

Having lost the Windmill fight; the enemy now has an organize 4-team force they can mobilize where-ever they wish. The only way your statement would be true is if all four charged up towards the Windmill for the rest of the game and created a constant 4v4+Turret scenario. However 'good' teams will not do this.

Let's just take a legitimate scenario post-Windmill:

-Immediately the team Revives and charges through their mid-land into the Jungle. Pings go out and your 4th team-mate starts heading for the Windmill as well as your Jungle; fully expecting a second-wind rush by the enemy to try and take you in a weakened state. However the enemy does not do this; one remains behind in the brush near mid to watch for BDs while the other three tag the speed shrine and run south.

All of a sudden Bot-lane finds itself under attack by a 2v2 while the other two enemies have circled around and are now deactivating Bot. Bot dies and the other two head towards the Turret under attack. Top sees the gank in process and has already sent one person to recall by the time the assault starts. When #3 & #4 pop out a second goes B to re-enforce bot. #3 on your team stays to guard Windmill, #4 goes your Jungle in case enemy #5 goes in for the BD, while #5 attempts a BD themselves because of the 4-bot situation.

But by the time #2 and #3 arrive at bot (with a Revive'd Bot) enemies #3 & #4 can run interference while Enemy Bot and #4 clean up the Bot capture. Enemy #5 left in the jungle can defend against your #5's BD attempt; so now you've lost your point.

It has nothing to do with 'You didn't hold well'. This is proof of a simple mathematical fact; you do not have the resources to adequately defend all three points against a heavy assault all the time. You station 1 at Windmill; it creates a 3v4 at other locations. You station 2 bot (including Bot itself in this tally) for the gank and 1 top for the Windmill it creates a 2v4 at your Mid. By 'rotating' where you send your team's offensive you can exploit these numerical weaknesses and obtain captures without banging your head against the enemy's best fortifications. Hence the term 'Rotational Offense'.

In Dominion you will lose points in an even match, always. That's just how the game works. 'How well' you defend them only determines how many resources your enemy needs to sink into taking it and how long it takes them; giving your team the time for appropriate counter-capture or BD responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chzyken (Hozzászólás 30140694)
Kills grant points, but only a small amount. Deaths cost you a lot more points. Don't die. But if you die defending a point for many seconds and interrupt the enemy many times, you'll easily make up for it.

This completely disregards the fact that some Champions exist, in certain configurations, to pretty much be the 'OMG I'm gonna die first but I'm setting up the fight for you to clean house!'. These Champions tend to die, a lot, but their sacrifice is what makes it possible for your team to exploit the bad positioning that results from their actions and take out the key enemy targets (thus winning the fight). Penalizing someone for dying outside of point defense negatively reinforces this key role.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chzyken (Hozzászólás 30140694)
Perhaps we can even take the call of duty sound ping to go off everytime you score points. There is nothing as satisfying as that sound.

We don't need extra noise; people have a hard enough time noticing in-game Pings as it is without another sound distracting them. XD


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