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-   -   Supports Damaging Minions? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2643127)

Vhyra 10-05-2012 01:21 AM

Supports Damaging Minions?
So I've been doing nothing but playing support for the past few days (level 30) and I absolutely love the role. I've been praised in a majority of games for being an excellent support .. then comes my most recent game.

Graves is bot, absolutely ripping me to shreds every time I poked one of the minions. Now let me clarify, I was NOT last hitting, I was poking each minion that was at full health while there was nothing else going on in the lane so that he could get to his last hits easier and quicker. I wasn't even 'auto attacking' (ie standing there continuously hitting one minion), I was just using my auto attack to poke one, move, then poke the next one at full health. I only had 2 CS a good majority of the game and he had about 100 CS by 15 minutes. Yet every time I went any where near a minion and poked it for a teensy bit of health, I got verbally raped: "terrible support" "you know you're support right?" "you know support don't hit minions right?" "open your eyes you're auto attacking my minions" "if only soraka didn't steal my minions the whole game"

So this poses the question.. was I really wrong in doing this? I'm just trying to be a better support here and was wondering if there are any cons to doing this? He didn't push the lane at all until we lost our bot tower, he just stood at the tower last hitting minions the whole time.

PS- I know I shouldn't be brooding over one bad game where I was yelled at, I'm not, I'm just honestly curious if this is a bad tactic or not. Like I said, I want to get better at being a support. :)

Thanks guys!

WWWWWWWWWWVVVWWW 10-05-2012 01:52 AM

I know your creep score was quite low, however the thing is that if you poke a minion, this increases the likelihood that your own team's minion may kill it. You haven't killed any minions per se, however removing it from your ADC's creep score is twice as bad because the gold is 'lost'.

A 'teensy' bit of health is quite large at lower levels, plus minion targeting changes often depending on the proximity of ally/enemy champions making it harder to predict when to last hit creeps.

Hope that helps.

ArtDZ 10-05-2012 02:52 AM

I tend to end up missing minions when supports do that. The only time i want the support to hit minions during the laning phase is if they backed and we are killing the tower or if we are under our own tower (sometimes the AD hasn't bought yet so can't kill a melee minion after two tower shots or a ranged creep after one shot).

Hirumonogatari 10-05-2012 08:48 AM

you must also remember that if you as the support are taking potshots at creeps, and the enemy support is not, assuming that the ADC is only last hitting you are contributing to pushing your lane.

pushing your lane is bad news, because not only are you now more vulnerable to ganks, push far enough and the enemy can freeze the lane and farm very close to the tower. now they get free cs and you are denied cs just because it would put your ADC very out of position.

i would say help take shots when and only when you are trying to freeze the lane. otherwise, don't touch them at all.

TehJackAttack 10-05-2012 08:56 AM

damaging creeps pushes the lane. Only do this if you're trying to shove a lane into the tower to reset it while the enemy is B.

Vhyra 10-05-2012 09:34 AM

Thank you guys so much! Completely understandable + totally learned something today. :)

Amatzikahni 10-05-2012 10:06 AM

Outside of pushing and last hitting under tower, there's only one other time I attack minions.

If we've got a severely big wave and I see my jungler nearby and I don't think we can secure a kill, I'll throw down an AoE or two so that my carry can blast through them all before the gank. I hate it when the jungler ganks and we don't get any kills but our tower eats through 10+ minions which is well over 150 gold.

Hirumonogatari 10-05-2012 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by A Laser Cat (Hozzászólás 29909603)
Thank you guys so much! Completely understandable + totally learned something today. :)

id just like to restate that you need to be situationally smart about hitting minions. there are several exceptions as people have stated where you can and should hit minions.

(1) when the carry is back, the CS is yours. why give gold to the tower and minions? they aren't going to use it better than you will.

(2) when you need to push the lane. this occurs under 2 circumstances. one, when the lane is pushed to your tower. you don't want the tower to be scoring hits on the minions as it is infinitely harder to farm like that. you want hit them to push them back JUST enough so its out of range of your tower. this is known as "freezing the lane" and your ADC will be grateful for your assistance in this. the other circumstance is when your enemies are back. you push the wave HARD in this case so your minions are killed by the enemy tower. this denies they gold and xp, and it pushes the lane back to the middle. this is known as "resetting the lane"

(3) when you are coordinating ganks. eh, i'm not too sure how this works, but it was mentioned somewhere =P

tl:dr: use a little brain when deciding whether to attack or not. don't blindly follow the "do not hit" mantra, although most of the time it will be correct.

pro4never 10-05-2012 02:11 PM

Attacking minions pushes the wave.

Ideally you want your wave frozen just outside your own turret (there are exceptions). Even if you were not taking his CS, you were pushing the lane. If that was not his intention, or your goal was not clear then I could see some people getting upset.

That being said... if someone is raging at you like that, just mute them and report after the game.

Note: Most of the time you only want to push the lane when the enemy is going back to base (so tower kills your minions and denies them and you guys can go back and buy without it pushing your turret). If you're behind, you want to hug tower, if you're ahead, you want to be near tower so you can zone them/gank them easier, if you're even, you want to hug tower for similar reasons (safer lane, easier to get ganks from jungle, more chasing distance if you decide to engage on them.)

Heir to Chaos 10-05-2012 02:14 PM

Everything I could offer has already been said here.

But even with that, there's no reason to be rude to a support like that. Also, if the champ you're laning with can't seal in kills and get you XP, it's basically your right to start farming, as an underleveled support is no good.

But having said that, it's the champ you're supportings job to make sure you're getting assists. And since you're doing well in the role, they should have no trouble picking off solos or squishies.

But yeah, if you're getting enough XP/assists, only kill minions when you're pushing lane.

Also, You are one of the nicest players I've seen in this forum. Your attitude is refreshing!

Best of luck my friend.

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