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-   -   Garen Ultimate makes 0 sense. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2573847)

Franny Pack 09-14-2012 12:15 AM

Garen Ultimate makes 0 sense.
I know it may sound like bogus and not true but hear me out.
Garen as of right now is a very solid champion. He gets an auto-attack reset, an aoe spell with great damage, and built in tanky-ness. However, i usually never have to use his Ultimate (r) in team fights and or brawls.

The reason for this is because his spells only allow him to dish out a decent burst of damage, usually on one champion. As soon as his spells are on cooldown, garen is immediately kited, usually to his own death. VERY rarely will his ultimate secure a kill, to change the tide of a fight. If you end up surviving through the cooldowns, you realize that as soon as your cooldowns are over, you can easily get a kill on the target, WITHOUT NEEDING YOUR ULTIMATE AT ALL. This happens over and over again, no matter how much farther ahead/behind you are over you're enemy (unless you are fed out of you're a** of course). I feel like the best solution to this would be an entirely new ultimate on Garen, with some sort of cc. Hell it could be another silence, just not a weak ultimate.

IN ADDITION, his ultimate deals MAGIC DAMAGE. It can EASILY be countered with even a little bit of MR, esp. hexdrinker. It has a longer cooldown (until rank 3) than the Darius ult, and it deals MUCH less damage. Darius even does TRUE DAMAGE, so its damage cannot be reduced no matter what. It makes no sense as to why Garen's ult cannot replenish after a kill just like darius, when it does much less damage, and can be countered with an item. Garen's QWR damage will usually do the same, if not less, than darius' QWR. Yes Garen can block good damage with his W, but darius barely needs AD items to match up in damage with Garen. It's very difficult to find the balance needed between Damage and Resistance on Garen since he depends on items significantly.

I know this is a lot to say, but Garen suffers immensely with his somewhat crappy kit. I know his ultimate is his trademark, but making him fit in the league again matters too. PLEASE COUNTER MY POINT SOMEONE, I WILL PROVE YOU WRONG.

Jamaree 09-14-2012 12:18 AM

Because Darius unlike Garen doesn't have any end game scaling with his moves, he isn't tanky like him either, and actually, Garen's ultimate does more damage outright. Until Darius builds four or more stack of his passive, Garen's will do more damage, and in fact, once his opponent reaches a certain threshold of life, Garen's will do more damage indefintely.

lemonpartyfan0 09-14-2012 12:22 AM

Comparing 2 way different champions. Countered.

I liked this thread until you mentioned Darius. They are not counter-parts.

Omnifacetious 09-14-2012 12:26 AM

I love Garen's ult. Perfect for levels 6-11 in lane. "What was that? We're both low? You think you can DPS me to death. Yeah probably, but... GIANT SPACE SWORD! You die. Period."

If you're getting kited so well, it had better be Ezreal with flash (or some other champion that has knock away and/or a built in dash), otherwise you're build needs some updating. Get MS quints + ghostblade and/or frozen mallet. land that Q, they're yours. M3 boots are also really good on him.

Franny Pack 09-14-2012 12:27 AM

The scaling of the damage between these champions is basically the same. Garen's ult will not do more damage than Darius since it is way to easy to get 4 stacks of his passive on a champion. Every darius will dish out his combo during a fight before his ult and so will Garen, but Darius's ult and abilities will still do more damage. You're missing the point that you can build against garen's ult with one MR item. Darius' ult scales very well off his AD and becomes true damage. Also, Darius just needs 2-3 stacks (20-40% extra true damage) to deal more damage than Garen with just an ultimate.

Franny Pack 09-14-2012 12:28 AM

I know people dont like comparing 2 champions, but it the purpose of the darius and garen ult is the exact same. It makes total sense to compare it.

lemonpartyfan0 09-14-2012 12:33 AM


Originally Posted by Franny Pack (Hozzászólás 29241888)
I know people dont like comparing 2 champions, but it the purpose of the darius and garen ult is the exact same. It makes total sense to compare it.

They are not the same. Also, what are you fighting for? At first you wanted a more dynamic kit, but then bring in the Darius stuff. Is a refreshing Ult for Garen what you want?

Garen and Darius play different roles, and they are very different when it comes down to things. There are alos more champions with execution ults. Should they all be given a refresher?

Franny Pack 09-14-2012 12:40 AM

The point is not a refresher, or only that Garen's current ult needs to be stronger.
Im fighting for a change to Garen's ultimate, that matches his kit. The only reason why I bring in darius is because it just shows how Garen's current ult is almost useless. Giving a refreshed ult on garen or on other champions is clearly dumb but it proves an important point, that garen's ult is trash.
Usually the only way to land a good ultimate is when your Q is off of cooldown, making it difficult to dish it out.

Vuther 09-14-2012 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by Franny Pack (Hozzászólás 29241888)
I know people dont like comparing 2 champions, but it the purpose of the darius and garen ult is the exact same. It makes total sense to compare it.

If Darius and Garen only had ultimates, then it would make total sense to.

However, that is not the case, and just comparing their ultimates is instead only distracting and misdirecting rather than sensible.

Omnifacetious 09-14-2012 12:45 AM

Garen's Ult does magic damage because it forces enemies to choose either building MR and dying to the combo before the ult, or building armor and maybe surviving long enough to get blasted by a space sword. It would be nice if it scaled with Garen's bonus AD, but would be broke-tacular if it did.

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