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-   -   Jungle... uh... Advice? I guess? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2494849)

Wightraven 08-19-2012 11:47 PM

Jungle... uh... Advice? I guess?
 
So. I'm bad in the jungle.

Actually, that's not true. I'm just fine in the jungle. I can clean up creeps pretty well. I've watched a fair amount of jungle tutorials and jungler videos. I have Mastery pages with Tough Skin, Butcher, and Runic Affinity. I've practiced in bot matches with my chosen champs (Malphite and Jax so far. Will be getting Lee Sin eventually) and I can clear a jungle pretty well. I can even counter-jungle pretty effectively.

I'm bad at ganks.

Now I'm aware that somewhere between 30 to 50% of my problem is the rest of my team. It seems like people see a jungler at some point in their levelling career who does amazing work and expect that every jungler ever should be able to pull that off with absolutely no help. I can't tell you how many matches I've gotten into where people aren't warding, or don't put any effort into positioning when I'm trying to gank, or they're asking me to gank and expecting me to immediately arrive in the bush even when I'm halfway across the map, etc. etc. Let's not even GET INTO what happens when I get invaded early game... and of course, if we end up not doing well the blame rests solely on my shoulders.

But I also have a hard time with the act myself, especially with early ganks. Later in the game I have a Frozen Mallet to help me lock down an enemy champion, but until I can build that I'm only really good at chasing people off.

I'm OK with not being a great jungler, though. Seriously doesn't bother me. But I'd like to start playing ranked games and general consensus seems to be that if you can't fill every role, you shouldn't be playing ranked. At the same time I don't know how to get better at ganks. It's not like I can practice them with impunity. I can gank bots with relative ease, but bots aren't real people. I've tried to practice in normals, but that usually just ends with one (or more) of my teammates chewing me out.

So... what do I do?

Essieu 08-20-2012 12:10 AM

Practice in normals. lol

It took me a long time to realize, normals are there for you to practice. Who cares if your team is *****ing at you? Its just a normal. Of course winning is nice. But honestly just tell them to chill.

On the ganking subject.

#1. Realize that sometimes your not ganking a lane for a promised kill. Sometimes you need to accept that your laner is getting dumped on and you just need to harass a little and give them some breathing room. Or realize that blowing the lane's flash is a successful gank.

#2. Malphite is not a good low level ganker. Malphite needs six to gank. Jax isnt that good either, he's mana dependent on early clear, and then also for ganks. And the timing of the jump/stun combo is more work than anybody should have to do. Jax honestly is not the best jungler to learn ganking mechanics on. He really needs gold to function to the best of his ability, and he's not getting a lot in the jungle.

#3. As I said earlier, practice practice practice. Jungle is in my opinion the hardest place to learn a new champion. You cannot just know the theory, you need the experience. And really thats the best advice I can give you. Because theres a lot of different ways to jungle a lot of different champions, so its really on you to decide.

Wightraven 08-20-2012 12:14 AM

I've had a hard time finding a champ who DOES do well early ganks. I was so looking forward to Nocturne because he's supposed to be such an awesome jungler... but I'm AWFUL with him, and his ganks don't seem any better... in my hands, of course.

Powerstoned 08-20-2012 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essieu (Hozzászólás 28438690)
#1. Realize that sometimes your not ganking a lane for a promised kill. Sometimes you need to accept that your laner is getting dumped on and you just need to harass a little and give them some breathing room. Or realize that blowing the lane's flash is a successful gank.

I'm a "bad jungler myself". I don't like the position, but maybe you can help me.

That "1." of yours happens to me about half the time, I accept it, I realise, but I have a problem recouperating my game after that happens. I can play a variety of junglers "well enough" skarner, mao, trundle, darius, etc..., I get blue buff, and then red, with the idea I'll work my way bot or mid for a gank. But then either mid gets "caught" and needs to be saved or bot just needs that "breathing room" and we get no kills, so I do that, then have to "B" and my buffs are wearing off, and I have 2+ people in lanes "wondering why I haven't ganked yet, wtf?". It'll then be 10 minutes in, no kills, no level advantage, and I have to choose to rush either buff then try and gank any lane immediately. Am I playing it right, can early-mid game suck and it's out of your control?

Wightraven 08-20-2012 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powerstoned (Hozzászólás 28439673)
I'm a "bad jungler myself". I don't like the position, but maybe you can help me.

That "1." of yours happens to me about half the time, I accept it, I realise, but I have a problem recouperating my game after that happens. I can play a variety of junglers "well enough" skarner, mao, trundle, darius, etc..., I get blue buff, and then red, with the idea I'll work my way bot or mid for a gank. But then either mid gets "caught" and needs to be saved or bot just needs that "breathing room" and we get no kills, so I do that, then have to "B" and my buffs are wearing off, and I have 2+ people in lanes "wondering why I haven't ganked yet, wtf?". It'll then be 10 minutes in, no kills, no level advantage, and I have to choose to rush either buff then try and gank any lane immediately. Am I playing it right, can early-mid game suck and it's out of your control?

That's largely a case of your group expecting you to be an amazing jungler, and expecting every gank to net a kill. What he said there is right (and is something I've been aware of for some time). The game does not live and die by kills. Turrets and gold are where it's at. So if you drive someone out of lane, they can't get creep score so they can't get gold farm, and your ally can.

The hardest part is running into a team that understands this.

XeSBrightSky 08-20-2012 01:53 AM

Well, sounds like you know the basics already. A Jungler's role is to Jungle, Gank, Harass,
Ward, Cover and if you're skill enough and already on an exceptional level, Counter-Jungle.

When ganking don't expect to get the kill yourself. Now to go more in-depth landing your key
initiation skills ARE very important and is a must. The timing of the Gank, the place, and your
ally's status(including ALL your opponents) all play a very important key into securing a
successful Gank.

Most people will say practice makes perfect BUT in all reality you're not gonna get a
successful Gank every time you go for one. Still, practicing WILL allow you to get better.
You must be absolutely dedicated into Jungling and go beyond the capabilities of what
your Champion Jungler can do for you to achieve success. When the times comes it'll just
click into your mind like that, you fingers will move on their own as if it was 2nd nature to you.
The best we all can say is just practice practice practice.

I'm a big Jungler player myself and I see that you have taken an interest into Jungling Lee-Sin.
Lee-Sin is my MOST favorite Jungler right now. BUT before that I started off with a Nocturne.
So I also had my bad starts but like everyone says, practice. I have jungled Nocturne, Riven,
Xin Zhao, Shaco, Fiora, Shen and many others. Then I FINALLY came upon Lee-Sin
(after getting owned by him so much LoL) and I ABSOLUTELY love him <3.

I don't want to type too much and there is so much more that you can learn from by doing
instead of reading. If you want I could tutor you in Jungling a decent Lee-Sin if you don't mind.

Add me if you want, if not just keep practicing. IGN: XeSBrightSky.

Etherimp 08-20-2012 02:46 AM

Read this:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2466813

Nevercrysis 08-20-2012 01:28 PM

Go play lots normals with your friends. If you can use any communication tool like Skype or something else, you can get better ganks and learn more.

Playing normal at solo queue is a pain... I have a friend, who is good enough at jungling and ganking. But he failed in one of the games we played, coz there was no coordination bewteen his teammates and him.

And forget to explain too much to players who can´t even hold a land or prevent ganks with wards. Just have fun and learn little by little.

Good luck!

Nroc 08-20-2012 01:39 PM

When I firs started playing this game all I ever did was feed in lane, so I bout my first champion Shaco and ran for the jungle, since then I now have WW,Mao,Ali,Leesin, Mord and 9 times out of 10 i jungle, I always here that Leesin is such a great jungler but honestly I die more in the jungle than anywhere els with Lee, So far my favorite jungler is Alistar, I play him with an AP/Jungle Rune page, and APC Masteries then I build him tanky, So Im hard to kill with a great clear time on top of that my Q, and W allow for great ganking and tower diving.
Try out jungle WW he has great sustain and his ult is almost a sure fire kill or Try Alistar his jungle game is lodes of fun.

Lord Puppy Fury 08-20-2012 01:47 PM

If you want an easy jungler, try Nunu. He doesn't need pots or armor thanks to his Q so you can start with a Doran's ring. Once you have blue and level 2, you can spam W on yourself to get by without boots. Lately, I'll ask for a hard leash on blue to save smite, the go steal red and the mini-golems. By then, I'm level 3 with the snowball so I usually swing by for a quick gank somewhere. With the snowball, most of my ganks burn at least a flash since the enemy will be frantic to escape that slow.

One of the most important things I've learned as a jungler, though is to ignore team mates who have no clue what they're talking about. If someone's fussing at me, I tune them out. Heck, sometimes I'll even ask them if they've ever jungled before. The answer's usually no, so I tune them out even harder. Someone who's never jungled doesn't realize that the jungler usually has 3-5 critical things he should be doing RIGHT NOW. If you have a team mate who doesn't understand that, just ignore them and move on.


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