Jayce as an AD carry.
I haven't watched any tournaments lately, so maybe the pros have been doing this, but I never see anyone play Jayce as an AD carry except me in the games I am in. Why is that? I know he has a relatively low AA range compared to most other AD carries (except Sivir), but he possesses a ridiculous amount of utility, burst, and CC in lane. No other AD comes close. When in Cannon form, your E > Q does an insane amount to the squishy supports and ADs in bot lane. We're talking a quarter of HP or more each time you use the combo and land it, particularly at lvl 5. Not to mention the fact that it has ridiculous range and speed, making it hard to dodge. If you're in a lane with Blitz/Ali and they get their combo off, in combination with Jayce's E > Q, R, Q > E, it's a guaranteed kill almost every time.
And other than his AA range, he doesn't really fall off. He can still do nice poke with E > Q, and he has his W steroid. Albeit his Hammer form isn't as useful late game, but it can be used to clean up team fights very effectively since it gives him all new skills and a little tankiness. Plus you have to factor in the fact that, more than likely, you have denied the **** out of the opposing AD because of his immense lane presence, and probably killed them several times as well, so snowballing is quite easy.
Any thoughts on this?
He kind of sucks as an AD carry for several reasons:
1) Crappy crappy range. As mentioned.
2) His hyperstrike interacts really poorly with Attack Speed. AS is meaningless when hyperstriking, but after the hyperstrike he absolutely must have the AS. So hyperstrike actually gets worse over time as AS increases.
3) Whenever he uses his Knockback or Gapcloser he has locked himself out of ranged attack for 6 seconds. So his 'utility' comes at a steep price.
4) Attack Speed does absolutely nothing for all his nicely-scaling abilities. Nada. Crit only affects his Hyperstrike.
Basically all his spells are meant as burst damage used in quick comboes. He doesnt have any sustained damage output type of skills other than his crappy crappy aura. Hes like a more versatile Pantheon or Riven and is usually built as such.
He can go for a semi-carry approach with lots of AD and crit, using hyperstrike to deal huge burst damage while still having a powerful poke and other skills. But thats a burst-booster, not a true ADC role.
His E/Q is really mana intensive even though its damage is quite high. It might work with Soroka as a poke lane, but otherwise would be hard to pull off.
It might work but it would really be classified more as a 'kill lane', where the goal is to deny their AD carry and not necessarily to turn Jayce into a strong ADC because he doesn't really ever become one.
Right now Ashe is probably the best ADC in terms of utility, while still having good range.
2. I don't see how this makes him a bad AD carry.. you're eventually going to build AS on an AD carry no matter what, but you usually don't do that until later in the game, not counting boots of course. Until you have that PD (usually after a couple doran's, IE, boots, maybe even BT), the extra AS and burst is really nice. I max this skill 2nd, so it has more of a mid-game presence where you don't really have that great of atk speed. Late game, having 3 AAs do a little extra dmg/AS isn't a bad thing..
3. You would only ever switch to Hammer when you know you're getting the kill/need the CC/armor/mr.. obviously it means you can't have ranged AA for a little bit, but if you nailed the kill then who cares?
4. Once again, AS is something you build more mid-late game, at which point your AAs are dealing "tons of damage" anyway. Even so, he has good poke with E > Q before teamfights and his E utility is kind of strong.. it's a mini ghost for your whole team (if placed correctly).
Honestly his mana costs aren't bad at all, and you can always switch to Hammer form when it's safe to do so to get a little extra mana back with his W passive. I've never had mana problems with him.
It's definitely more of a kill lane, which is why it works really well with supports like Ali/Blitz/Leona. Let them initiate, blow your E > Q > W, R, W > Q walk in front of them and E them back... and, they're dead. Almost every time.
I think more people should try it at least. I've had lots of success with it.
The main issue stopping Jayce from being a good ranged carry, is that to do the AD carry role properly you need to stand behind your bruisers and tanks and hit people. But half of Jayce's kit encourages you to rush the front line and get stuck in. That's all of his mercury hammer skills. You'll be too fragile to be doing that most of the time.
You'd make for a terrifying duelist, but in a teamfight you'd be limited mostly to cannon mode, and you're not using him to his full potential by staying in cannon mode the entire time. Might as well play another carry who brings more to the table with less risk.
I feel the same as the others above me who have replied to your post. There are certain aspects to Jayce's kit that could make him alright for the role of an AD carry, but I find where he shines the most is at top as a duelist. I play him mainly in blind 3's and 5's and always feel confident knowing that if I'm facing an opponent like Darius I can use my range to harass him relatively safely, or enter hammer mode if I'm facing a more tanky opponent like Mundo or Vladimir and abuse his Q>E combo to add extra harass along with my usual farm.
It reminds me of how I knew a friend who would play as AD Twisted Fate. Sure, it worked for him, but it doesn't change the fact that most players can get more mileage out of building Twisted Fate as an AP champion than they would building him as an AD carry.
If it works for you then I don't see why you would stop, but that's just my two cents on the topic.
I should also add that I have never ever seen Jayce in a tournament. I watch ign pro league on my ipad while eating cereal so Ive watched quite a few games.
It could be coincidence, but I dont really have any high level play to go on.
Me as jayce and my friend as zilean destroyed a Caitlyn, Nami bottom lane. The thing is everyone seems to focus on keeping him in cannon form while in lane. All you do is farm in cannon form and when their carry gets too close you switch to melee q, e combo. Then go back to farming. With that combo you do a good chunk of their health. honestly laning phase should not be a problem with jayce especially once mid game hits.
Thats a signifcant necro and you didn't actually refute any of the points already made. i.e. his crappy range and steroid not interacting well with AS, and half his kit melee.
Playing one game hardly qualifies as proving any kind of point. Vs any good opponents you would get bent over if you went melee and charged right into TWO enemy champs and a bunch of minions. Especially since you spent a big chunk of your mana and even knocked the enemy away from you.
So there you are, in melee, in the middle of mad creeps, with two ranged enemies shooting at you and your own support 600 range behind you.
that doesnt sound strong.
Alright, I just had to come by because I was talking about people trolling as Jayce ADC on reddit and surprisingly the thread went 50/50 with people actually trying to say I was the idiot for saying jayce is not an ADC. This new wave a LoL players that don't understand what the roles are for is getting annoying.
Let me throw this out here... not anyone who stacks AD is ADC.
Darius - Not ADC
Renekton - Not ADC
Jayce - Not ADC
Shaco - Not ADC
Their ARE more non-ADC that stack heavy AD and have high AD output.
The purpose of these champs is not to be the ADC of the team. For instance, Renekton is a great last pick for top lane when you aren't sure how tanky the other team will be. You can top lane and start out building moderatly tanky for lane sustain. Then if you get enough gold, (high CS, assists, towers, kills) you can build a heavy AD build and counter a team that may not be building armor. He can also finish building tanky if they are building armor and you can leave the damage to AP champs and the real ADC who will not need to be close range to do his damage. Jayce should be playing a similar role. The fact that he can switch to a range champ just makes him more viable top to reach CS without taking poke damage. That is the sole purpose of his AA going ranged. That and maybe a little extra chase potential.
If you do choose to take Jayce in bot lane and call ADC you should not be building annnnnnnyyyyyyyy defenses as per "carry" (for those of you that don't know... this means others will carry you early game when you are weak so that you can carry them late game when your damage is maximized, this is why bot has a support and no other lane does) When Jayce has no defense in ADC build... as soon as he cast his ulti and goes to melee, he is forced to be in the middle of combat. All AoE damage will subsequently hit him and the support will then be wasting and heals, buffs, shields, ect to try and keep the only source of damage alive. And the tank may die leaving your team defenseless to a good team that can focus.
All this being said. If you are in lobby and say that you want to build a heavy AD jayce and maybe control bot lane. Exceptions can be made. Such as having a Tryn or Yi jungler. These are THE only ADC that are melee. A good argument can be made for Fiora but I just can't stand her as a champ and her skill package is broken so I pretend she doesn't exist XD. Tryn and Yi can be the ADC from jungle because both of them have ways to protect themselves and exit combat without relying on a support. But Jayce in bot lane should still be building some defensive items to help balance the team. Jayce has EVENLY MATCHED ATTACK AND DEFENSE LEVELS!!!!!! AKA NOT A CARRY!!!!
I've always wanted to try adc Jayce but my team never lets me
|All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:59 PM.|
(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc