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-   -   [Remodel/Rework] Hiemerdinger (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2403251)

Bliztron 07-26-2012 07:15 PM

[Remodel/Rework] Hiemerdinger
 
Ok, first off, this is a remodel and a remake. You have the perfect ability to flatout disagree and have rights to say he doesn't need a reamke. Just bear with me. This is a half-fun, half-serious remake. I hope to capture the element that people like about Hiemerdinger and also make him a viable AP defense master.

Here is how this thread is gonna go. First I will post why he needs to be remade. Then I will post Hiemerdinger as he is currently. Then I will post possible remake(s) to Hiemerdinger.

Quote:

Why remake our favorite Yordle Inventor?

Hiemerdinger rarely sees competitive play, and is even rare to see normal play. he is a rare pick, and for good reason. In teamfights and other forms of important gameplay, such as ganks, he just doesn't cut it. People would much rather take champions like Brand, Ahri, or Kassadin. I hope to give Hiemerdinger the ability to actually be used while keeping his pros intact. I have chosen Hiemerdinger to remake because he is somewhat UP and is getting very outplayed.

What if we don't want him remade? He is fine the way he is!

I don't expect you to want him remade. I like his playstyle and think is is fun. However, I believe there is too many counters to him and people just don't play him often. If you disagree with these remakes, feel completely free to be so. I'm not trying to force these changes on anyone.

He just needs a buff.

Will that cut it? If we buff Hiemerdinger, will he be vaible? Maybe. His kit is more structured around defending towers and pushing lanes. He isnt as "in the fray" as popular AP carries, making him much less used. He has very poor chasing and is very easy to defeat. His kit is majorly out of meta, and is considerably weak in current days. With the current release of Zyra, she has that very strong presence AP fortress while still being a able attacker that Hiemerdinger failed to be created with.
Quote:

Why compare Hiemerdinger to Zyra?

Both Zyra and Heimerdinger have the feel of a AP fortress. While they are still vastly different, Heimerdinger is very weak and lacks what Zyra has. Heimerdinger and Zyra both have a 'turret' so to speak, and they both can very quickly break down a minion wave. They both use AP and both have decent damage. Zyra, however, is much better.

Why is Zyra more viable than Heimerdinger?

Zyra can be built so that she can rip up enemies with her abilities with her plants as a secondary fortess build. She can stand toe to toe with her enemies' while Heimerdinger is forced to drop his turrets, lob his grenade, shoot his rockets, and run. The biggest thing that makes Zyra more viable than Hiemerdinger is that Zyra can chase and escape her enemies well with her E, while she can also effectively deal poke and good damage. She also has much more survivability in teamfights and has immense presence in teamfights. Hiemerdinger doesn't. Additionally, Zyra's 'turrets' have more survivability to a point. AoE's, while quickly being able to destroy Hiemerdinger's turrets, only do a set amount of damage to Zyra's turrets. In addition, basic attacks cannot so easily obliterate Zyra's Seeds as they can Hiemerdinger's turrets. It rakes 3 basic attacks to destroy a plant, while t times, one or wto hits is all it takes for Hiemer's turrets. In addition to that, Zyra's plant deal far more burst damage and can be placed afar.

Should we just switch Hiemerdinger's turrets into th same system as Zyra's plants?

No. Heimerdiner's turrets have health, which synergizes with his passive and also is interesting. Switching his turrets would destroy the very fabric off what makes Heimerdinger so special. His turrets feel like some anti-minion SIege minon.

So what IS good about Hiemerdinger?

Hiemerdinger has the passive turret heal, which makes him very strong in a lane. Plus, his turrets last forever, or at least as long as they can survive and are not replaced. This helps hold a constant defense. He has long range poke with his rockets and has good minion clearing AoE abilities. He is somewhat beneficial in teamfighhts due to his slows, blinds, and stuns. He also is great at kiting people.

What is BAD with Hiemerdinger?

He has very low defenses and very low health. His W applies no utility other than 3 person damage, which can very easily be avoided by hiding behind minons, as they are not champion seeking. He has low to no hard CC, and his slows on his turrets can be easily forgotten by most abilities. He has very poor ganks and has trouble with being offensive. His turrets can be easily AoE'd down, or generally focused.
Here is Hiemerdinger's current form.

Quote:

Quote:

Stats

Health

350 (+75)

Attack damage

49.24 (+3)

Health regen.

4.5 (+0.55)

Attack speed

0.625 (+1.21%)

Mana

240 (+65)

Armor

7 (+3)

Mana regen.

7.0 (+0.65)

Magic res.

30

Range

550

Mov. speed

300

Quote:

Quote:

Techmaturgical Repair Bots

(Innate): Heimerdinger gives himself and nearby allied structures and units 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 health regeneration per 5 seconds.

Diameter: 800
Quote:

H-28G Evolution Turret

(Active): Heimerdinger constructs a Turret with 260 + (15 × level) health that fires at nearby enemies, dealing 30 / 38 / 46 / 54 / 62 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage (half damage to towers and inhibitors). Heimerdinger stores enough parts for a new turret every 25 seconds (affected by cooldown reduction). Turrets attack 50% faster for the first 6 seconds after placement. Turrets disappear automatically when Heimerdinger dies. Turrets receive upgrades and transform with every ability rank.

Rank 2: Green turret: reduces armor & magic resist by 1 for two seconds every hit (max. 50).
Rank 3: Green turrets: max turrets increased to 2.
Rank 4: Green turrets: gain an additional 125 health.
Rank 5: Red turrets: now apply 50% splash damage.


Cooldown: 1 second
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Range: 250
Turret range: 525
Turret attack speed: 1.25
Sight Diameter: 625
Quote:

Hextech Micro-Rockets

(Active): Heimerdinger fires 3 long range rockets that hit the enemies closest to him, dealing 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+0.55 per ability power).

Cooldown: 10 seconds
Cost: 65 / 85 / 105 / 125 / 145 mana
Range: 1,000
Quote:

CH-1 Concussion Grenade

(Active): Heimerdinger lobs a grenade at a targeted location, dealing Magic Damage: 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power) magic damage to enemy units and blinding them for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds. Enemies who are directly hit are stunned for 1.5 seconds.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 seconds
Range: 925
Diameter: 250 (estimate)
Stun radius: 100 (estimate)
Projectile speed: 750
Quote:

UPGRADE!!!

(Passive): Heimerdinger gains 10 / 15 / 20 % Cooldown Reduction

(Active): All active Evolution Turrets are healed for 100% of their maximum health. Also for the next 6 seconds all of his abilities are improved. His turrets turn blue and start to fire 20 / 25 / 30 % slowing frost shots. Newly created turrets also have this property, he now fires 5 Hextech Micro-Rockets instead of 3 and the missile speed on CH-1 Concussion Grenade is increased from 750 to 1,000.

Cooldown: 120 / 105 / 90 seconds
Cooldown after passive CDR: 108 / 89 / 72 seconds
Cost: 90 mana


Now is the time for the remakes.

Quote:

Quote:

Stats

Health

370 (+75)

Attack damage

50 (+3)

Health regen.

4.5 (+0.55)

Attack speed

0.625 (+1.21%)

Mana

260 (+65)

Armor

12 (+3)

Mana regen.

7.0 (+0.75)

Magic res.

30 (+0)

Range

550

Mov. speed

305

Quote:

Quote:

Techmaturgical Repair Bots

(Innate): Heimerdinger gives himself and nearby units 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 health regeneration per 5 seconds. This also effects allied structures, with double the effect.

Diameter: 800
Quote:

H-28G Evolution Turret

(Active): Heimerdinger constructs a Turret with 260 + (25 × level) health that fires at nearby enemies, dealing 30 / 38 / 46 / 54 / 62 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage (half damage to towers and inhibitors). Heimerdinger stores enough parts for a new turret every 24 seconds (affected by cooldown reduction). Turrets attack 50% faster for the first 5 seconds after placement. Turrets continue to fight for 3 sec after Hiemerdinger dies, then disassemble. Turrets receive upgrades and transform with every ability rank.

Rank 2: Green turret: reduces armor & magic resist by 2 for two seconds every hit (max. 50).
Rank 3: Green turrets: max turrets increased to 2.
Rank 4: Green turrets: gain an additional 200 health and 15 magic resistance.
Rank 5: Red turrets: now apply 50% splash damage.


Cooldown: 1 second
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Range: 325
Turret range: 525
Turret attack speed: 1.25
Sight Diameter: 625
Quote:

Hextech Micro-Rockets

(Active): Heimerdinger fires 3 long range rockets that hit the enemies closest to him, dealing 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+0.65 per ability power).

Cooldown: 10 seconds
Cost: 65 / 75 / 85 / 95 / 105 mana
Range: 1,000
Quote:

CH-1 Concussion Grenade

(Active): Heimerdinger lobs a grenade at a targeted location, dealing 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power) magic damage to enemy units and blinding them for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds. Enemies who are directly hit are stunned for 1.5 seconds. Hitting a Evelution Turret with the grenade re-energizes it, increasing thier attack speed by 50% for 5 sec once again.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 925
Diameter: 300 (estimate)
Stun radius: 175 (estimate)
Projectile speed: 850
Quote:

UPGRADE!!!

(Passive): Heimerdinger gains 10 / 15 / 20 % Cooldown Reduction

(Active): Hiemerdinger tremendously upgrades everything for 6 sec. He gains 15/30/45% increased movemeant speed and all active Evolution Turrets are healed for 100% of their maximum health. His turrets turn blue, taking 10 / 15 / 20% reduced damage and start to fire 20 / 25 / 30 % slowing frost shots. Newly created turrets also have this property. He now fires 4 champion seeking Hextech Micro-Rockets instead of 3 and they each stun thier targtfor .5 sec. In addition, the missile speed on CH-1 Concussion Grenade is increased from 850 to 1,200.

Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds
Cooldown after passive CDR: 80 / 72 / 64 seconds
Cost: 100 mana


This new forn of Hiemerdinger alows him to be more active in teamfights and ganks, qas well as in running away, sniping creeps, and in all important aspects of gameplay. He can now effectively gank someone by plaing 2 turretas in the path of retreat and using his ultimate. He then fires his W, stunning the enemy slightly and allowing him to follow up with another 1.5 stun from his E. In teamfights, his ult upgraded W will give a .5 sec delay to enemy assaults, which can be tremendously helpful. Hs turrets also take less damage so they cannit be so easily focused down.

Well I hope you like the rework for him.

Next Page= Broken-Down Analysis of his updated abilities

Bliztron 07-26-2012 11:35 PM

Broken Down Analysis

Quote:

Quote:

Techmaturgical Repair Bots

(Innate): Heimerdinger gives himself and nearby allied structures and units 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 health regeneration per 5 seconds.

Diameter: 800
This is a very interesting passive, the only in the game that actually repairs your structures. This is immensly powerful, but can very easily be deafeated. It lacks a great amoount of power and overall restores your turrets very slowly, far slower than damage is dealt.

Quote:

Techmaturgical Repair Bots

(Innate): Heimerdinger gives himself and nearby units 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 health regeneration per 5 seconds. This also effects allied structures, with double the effect.

Diameter: 800
This updated passive dosn't affect teamfight or the such, but it does help Hiemerdinger lock down a tower and be able to sit back and repair a turret instead of just stalling for a few more attacks.
Quote:

Quote:

H-28G Evolution Turret

(Active): Heimerdinger constructs a Turret with 260 + (15 × level) health that fires at nearby enemies, dealing 30 / 38 / 46 / 54 / 62 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage (half damage to towers and inhibitors). Heimerdinger stores enough parts for a new turret every 25 seconds (affected by cooldown reduction). Turrets attack 50% faster for the first 6 seconds after placement. Turrets disappear automatically when Heimerdinger dies. Turrets receive upgrades and transform with every ability rank.

Rank 2: Green turret: reduces armor & magic resist by 1 for two seconds every hit (max. 50).
Rank 3: Green turrets: max turrets increased to 2.
Rank 4: Green turrets: gain an additional 125 health.
Rank 5: Red turrets: now apply 50% splash damage.


Cooldown: 1 second
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Range: 250
Turret range: 525
Turret attack speed: 1.25
Sight Diameter: 625
The thing that defines Heimerdinger, his turrets are truly remarkable and powerful. The give Heimerdinger his fortress feel and benefit his team in numerous ways. The only problem that I tackled here was that they just weren't that much of a threat to a pursuing enemy. Also, it was dificult to place to your advantage. In addition to all that, it also died easily.

Quote:

H-28G Evolution Turret

(Active): Heimerdinger constructs a Turret with 260 + (25 × level) health that fires at nearby enemies, dealing 30 / 38 / 46 / 54 / 62 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage (half damage to towers and inhibitors). Heimerdinger stores enough parts for a new turret every 24 seconds (affected by cooldown reduction). Turrets attack 50% faster for the first 5 seconds after placement. Turrets continue to fight for 3 sec after Hiemerdinger dies, then disassemble. Turrets receive upgrades and transform with every ability rank.

Rank 2: Green turret: reduces armor & magic resist by 2 for two seconds every hit (max. 50).
Rank 3: Green turrets: max turrets increased to 2.
Rank 4: Green turrets: gain an additional 200 health and 15 magic resistance.
Rank 5: Red turrets: now apply 50% splash damage.


Cooldown: 1 second
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Range: 325
Turret range: 525
Turret attack speed: 1.25
Sight Diameter: 625
With the update, I shortened the Attack Speed frenzy by 1 sec, and reduced the CD of his turret by 1. Those were minor balancing factors. Tjhe major things that were changed were its survivability and threat level. I added the effect that the turrets continued t attack for 3 seconds after Heimerdinger died, allowing him to punish foes for focusinfg him and also allowing good conutering to assassins. Also, this addition will hopefully add new-found threat to his turrets. The second thing I changed was thier survivability. At level 18, Heimerdinger's turrets gain an additional 270 health (excluding additional health benefits). With the new form, his turrets will have 450 additional health. Also, rank four of his turrets give an additional 75 health and the very important 15 magic resistance. Most AoEs come from AP mages, and this bonus magic resistance will hopefully increase the turret's durability.
Quote:

Quote:

Hextech Micro-Rockets

(Active): Heimerdinger fires 3 long range rockets that hit the enemies closest to him, dealing 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+0.55 per ability power).

Cooldown: 10 seconds
Cost: 65 / 85 / 105 / 125 / 145 mana
Range: 1,000
This simple attack did good damage to 3 enemies, and was good for poke and clearing minons.

Quote:

Hextech Micro-Rockets

(Active): Heimerdinger fires 3 long range rockets that hit the enemies closest to him, dealing 85 / 135 / 185 / 235 / 285 (+0.65 per ability power).

Cooldown: 10 seconds
Cost: 65 / 75 / 85 / 95 / 105 mana
Range: 1,000
The only thing that changed her was the AP ratio on it was buffed by .1, causing it to deal more damage.
Quote:

Quote:

CH-1 Concussion Grenade

(Active): Heimerdinger lobs a grenade at a targeted location, dealing 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power) magic damage to enemy units and blinding them for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds. Enemies who are directly hit are stunned for 1.5 seconds.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 seconds
Range: 925
Diameter: 250 (estimate)
Stun radius: 100 (estimate)
Projectile speed: 750
This is his main utility ability. It can be very strong, but has some large problems. For one, the stun was excessively hard to proc on moving targets, and very rarely was it ever landed. Also, the projectile speed is crippling, being one of tyhe slowest projectiles in the game. Ever since people learned that Annie could Tibbers stun, people don't group up in close quarters anymore, so it is nearly impossible to provide considerable CC in teamfights.

Quote:

CH-1 Concussion Grenade

(Active): Heimerdinger lobs a grenade at a targeted location, dealing 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power) magic damage to enemy units and blinding them for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds. Enemies who are directly hit are stunned for 1.5 seconds. Hitting a Evelution Turret with the grenade re-energizes it, increasing thier attack speed by 50% for 5 sec once again.

Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120 mana
Cooldown: 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds
Range: 925
Diameter: 300 (estimate)
Stun radius: 175 (estimate)
Projectile speed: 850
This new form, in my opinion, is much better than the old ability. Two major things were changed: the impact radia and the new effect. The ability, upon hitting a turret, re-energizes it. this is very helpful, allowing Heimerdinger to make his turrets shoot rapdly again and stun the target at the same time if his enemy is foolishly running through the turrets. Another big thing that changed is that the Radius of both the damage and the stun are widened. It is now MUCH easier to land that stun on a moving enemy and be useful in teamfights. Also, the projectile speed is a bit faster.
Quote:

Quote:

UPGRADE!!!

(Passive): Heimerdinger gains 10 / 15 / 20 % Cooldown Reduction

(Active): All active Evolution Turrets are healed for 100% of their maximum health. Also for the next 6 seconds all of his abilities are improved. His turrets turn blue and start to fire 20 / 25 / 30 % slowing frost shots. Newly created turrets also have this property, he now fires 5 Hextech Micro-Rockets instead of 3 and the missile speed on CH-1 Concussion Grenade is increased from 750 to 1,000.

Cooldown: 120 / 105 / 90 seconds
Cooldown after passive CDR: 108 / 89 / 72 seconds
Cost: 90 mana
CDR, nice. This is primarily used for defensive purposes, whether it is kiting an enemy or taking down a large minion wave assaulting your tower. Also, it makes it so you have a higher chance to hit enemy champions, and theoretically, hit the entire enemy team. Also, it makes the grenadwe move much faster, so you have a better chance to proc the stun and deal damage.

Quote:

UPGRADE!!!

(Passive): Heimerdinger gains 10 / 15 / 20 % Cooldown Reduction

(Active): Hiemerdinger tremendously upgrades everything for 6 sec. He gains 15/30/45% increased movemeant speed and all active Evolution Turrets are healed for 100% of their maximum health. His turrets turn blue, taking 10 / 15 / 20% reduced damage and start to fire 20 / 25 / 30 % slowing frost shots. Newly created turrets also have this property. He now fires 4 champion seeking Hextech Micro-Rockets instead of 3 and they each stun thier target for .5 sec. In addition, the missile speed on CH-1 Concussion Grenade is increased from 850 to 1,200.

Cooldown: 100 / 90 / 80 seconds
Cooldown after passive CDR: 80 / 72 / 64 seconds
Cost: 100 mana
This newly remodeled ability is the meal of Heimerdinger. It still captures the "UPGRADE!!!" factor qite well, and solves the biggest problems facing Heimerdinger. First off, Heimer now just was opened up a world of escaping, kiting, and ganking, for the ability now gves 15/30/45% speed, which is immense. Also, activating this gives you an even bigger presence in teamfights, as your turrets take reduced damage that can very largely help in thier survival. Heimerdinger's rockets now only hit up to 4 people, but each rocket applies a .5 sec stun, which helps immensly in ganks, landing his E, running away, chasing, and fighting teamfights. His E just got a speed upgrade like usual, but its a much larger speed upgrade. I hope this would help Hiemerdinger have a teamfight presence, be able to gank enemies, and also allow him to stand off against enemy mages and carries. Also, this is his main ability, the biggest thing about him, so the CD is reduced.

Bliztron 07-28-2012 12:17 AM

updated

Maisel 07-28-2012 08:21 AM

I feel as if this needs more attention. Bump.

Cha Shin Hoon 07-28-2012 12:03 PM

Who is "Hiemerdinger"?

Bliztron 07-29-2012 12:01 AM

bump

Grab my Lemons 10-14-2012 03:35 PM

As someone who mains Heimerdinger, I'm slightly offended.

Bliztron 10-17-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Facerockker (Hozzászólás 30227873)
As someone who mains Heimerdinger, I'm slightly offended.

of the remake, the reasoning, or the spelling?

Dohvakiin Lord 04-07-2013 01:10 PM

I quite like this idea. Heim is definately one of the hardest champions to play mostly because he relies on his turrets, but only has one ability that improves upon it. With the extension of his passive and the concussion grenade he can now gain more effects for his turrets which allows them to do some serious punishing on the enemy. One thing you may want to think about is the damage ratio for the grenades. Now that they give increased attack speed for the turrets and has increased speed the damage ratio is a bit too much. I would probably reduce the damge to 60/105/150/195/240(+0.55 per ability power) from 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 (+0.6 per ability power).

IAmBruceSwain 04-07-2013 01:15 PM

Heimerdinger is fine as he is.


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