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-   -   Talon's passive needs to apply to all his damage, not just autoattacks (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2319803)

Thane Soren 07-04-2012 07:36 PM

Talon's passive needs to apply to all his damage, not just autoattacks
 
It would stack nicely with Cutthroat and actually be freaking useful sometime mid-late game, where your job is to nuke someone within 1-3 seconds and GTFO before Malphite knocks your ass up or Jarvan locks you down.

All it's really good for is tiny bits of extra damage in the lane phase.

If you're slipping even one autoattack in the middle of an assassination, you're putting yourself at a very bad position as an assassin. (The danger level with Talon being in an open confrontation increases VERY, VERY QUICKLY.)

I can see autoattacking once when you're alone with a squishy scrublet and all the other enemies are somewhere else, so you can afford to do a bit of extra damage, but that usually means they're at Baron or buttraping your base. In most cases, you should be able to kill the squishy scrublet without needing the autoattack anyway.

In my experiences, adding an autoattack to the squishy scrublet is actually increasing the amount of time it takes to kill someone, not to mention the fact that you have only a one second silence, and your damage steroid lasts for only 3 seconds. They need to die - fast.

On a final note, I've done this combo for as long as I can remember with Talon: Cutthroat, Rake, Noxian Diplomacy. It's sometimes difficult to land since Talon appears so close to the enemy (you can very very easily miss your Rake), but I recently just figured out that his passive doesn't work with all of his damage, therefore Noxian Diplomacy (and the second hit of Rake) don't do the 10% increased damage. I've been trying to maximize something that can't be maximized.

I might as well just poof to them, Q, then walk away so I can actually aim my Rake if I'm not planning on using my ult.

While that would be a good tactic if you need to be a little more mobile, Talon is a risk/reward champion. If you're going to Rake, THEN use Noxian Diplomacy, you're stationary for a longer amount of time, with a passive that SHOULD be activating. If the situation doesn't call for this, then you can Q first, and then walk away to Rake...it shouldn't be the only thing that you have to do because of a useless passive.

THE SUGGESTED CHANGES
_________________________________________________

Mercy: Deals 10% additional damage to the targets of Talon from all of his damage sources (including Ignite and activated items) if they are suffering from any kind of crowd control.

Cutthroat: Blink to target enemy, giving them a debuff causing 3%/6%/9%/12%/15% additional damage from you from all sources, including Ignite and activated items. Silence the enemy for one second. If you hit the enemy with Noxian Diplomacy while the debuff is active, the silence is increased by half of a second.

I suggested Mercy to deal additional damage on Ignite and activated items because protip: that's how Cutthroat works even right now. So if Mercy were to be buffed to work on Talon's abilities just like Cutthroat, it would fit better if it also worked on Ignite and activated items just like Cutthroat.




T L: D R Talon's passive needs to be buffed to either a dramatically increased percentage increase, working with ALL of his damage (just like [and combining with] Cutthroat), or both.

Gaara 0fThe Funk 07-04-2012 07:38 PM

The point of the passive is that he doesn't really need one, but its a decent boost for extended fights.

His burst damage is fine, the only problem with talon is that he gets crushed in lane by other bruisers, and since he's a physical damage character this creates problems with lane composition since in top lane most mages (which you basically force your team to draft since he needs to mid) don't compete well with bruisers, and the ones who do generally don't do too well as a team's main mage.

Thane Soren 07-04-2012 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaara 0fThe Funk (Hozzászólás 26528882)
The point of the passive is that he doesn't really need one, but its a decent boost for extended fights.

His burst damage is fine, the only problem with talon is that he gets crushed in lane by other bruisers, and since he's a physical damage character this creates problems with lane composition since in top lane most mages (which you basically force your team to draft since he needs to mid) don't compete well with bruisers, and the ones who do generally don't do too well as a team's main mage.

Everyone has a counter.

But just because a champ doesn't need a passive doesn't mean he should have a useless one.

pornstarq 07-04-2012 07:43 PM

dont feel like its a useless one
I actually think its pretty good compared to some other ones...
mid tier passive
dont need buff

Zexxxon 07-04-2012 07:44 PM

Upvoted for "squishy scrublet"

Thane Soren 07-04-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornstarq (Hozzászólás 26529117)
dont feel like its a useless one
I actually think its pretty good compared to some other ones...
mid tier passive
dont need buff

Its tier doesn't matter; what matters is how well the passive compliments the champion it's assigned to.

Right now, it doesn't really do that.

And if you do want it to do that, like I stated in the OP, it's putting you in very bad positions or risking your damage buff running out early.

Reapexx 07-04-2012 07:45 PM

bump because I main Talon, idc if he needs this or not.

Letkhar 07-04-2012 07:47 PM

Oh god no. That would be OP as ****.

Doesn't he need to auto-attack to even use one of his skills? Useless passive my ass...

Shaco Malfoy 07-04-2012 07:47 PM

Agreed. It doesn't feel impactful at all. The difference between a Talon that uses his passive and a Talon that doesn't is negligible considering he should be doing most of his damage from abilities. I would rather he got a totally new passive, something like hecarims passive backwards, ms from ad, would be cool.

TryAndMakeMe 07-04-2012 07:48 PM

Doesn't need to be buffed. He's fine as is.


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