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-   -   Jungle ganking help (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2181254)

Tyrnas 06-03-2012 04:35 PM

Jungle ganking help
I started learning to jungle around lvl 11 with Fiddle, and moved on through Amumu to Udyr/Mundo and now Jarvan. At first, it was easy. No one warded, oftentimes there wasn't another jungler. As I got better, and everyone seemed to improve around me, that's what prompted the switch each time to other junglers. Not necessarily to try and find that magical uber jungler who can do everything, but to prevent stagnation with one character, and to learn the nuances of another.

My problem now is, I just can't seem to be as reliable ganking as I once was. I seem to have found my normal hidden elo, and wards are popping up everywhere. Lanes aren't consistently pushed, or if they are, it's because a teammate has recently died in lane, and the best I can do is hold tower without pushing the wave out until they return.

Then there are games such as my last one, where every lane seemed to get stomped, and no matter where I showed up, the opposing team would melt away. I grabbed oracles, and sure enough, wards as far as the eye could see.

So I feel like I can do more to be more effective. Is it time to start investing in an early oracles, even if I'm not particularly fed/farmed? Should I make more of a point to walk through their jungle in preparation for ganks?

Basically, what are some best tips for me to avoid their visibility and get back to striking fear into laners hearts?

SavageWolves 06-03-2012 06:35 PM

Have you learned how to lane gank?

When your lane is a little pushed, you can sneak into the bush without being detected and gank from there. Also, try to get your laners to ping the location of wards when they know they are placed.

Drop your own wards in the enemy jungle and counter jungle their jungler.

gilleo 06-03-2012 07:14 PM

Counterjungling is very important. If you don't know this already, it takes 5 minutes for the buffs to respawn. Taking blue buff from some junglers, maybe the second time, will severly cripple them (Amumu, Olaf, Maokai, etc). Try to estimate when their buffs will spawn. For example, the first enemy jungle buff the second time around will usually spawn a little after the 7 minute mark.

As for ganking, try and coordinate with your teammates for ganking and when to push the lane. Some jungler ganks are better then others. Without CC from your teammates, Fid's ganks aren't strong after the fear has expired.

Oracle's elixirs should be bought, but only by certain champs (unless in desperate need). I ALWAYS buy Oracle's when I jungle as Alistar, because he doesn't die, lol.

Tyrnas 06-03-2012 07:33 PM

Maybe I'm just overreacting to a poor game here, but to clarify a few points.

I honestly haven't jungled with Fidd in quite a while. I understand he's coming back into his own after the recent buff, but I've just moved on from him. Though I've seen some recent success with Nunu, of all people. Steroid for gank/late game carry babysitting too stronk.

I feel comfortable with my counterjungling. That was the first thing I learned with Udyr, due to his naturally fast clear speeds. My first trip back on any jungler will almost always include 1-2 wards, the first to be placed by their wraiths, clearing the big and 2 small ones while I'm there if up. I could stand to be more on top of stealing their buffs, though I often prioritize feeding my mid our 2nd blue as soon as it spawns, which allows them to take theirs. Vs a fairly slow initial jungler (Amumu, Naut, Fidd, hell, any who start at blue), I like to ask for a strong leash at our blue and quickly run to steal their red. I tend to fail to be there for the respawn though. I also will make a point to go eat some of their jungle if i see them in a far off spot in one of the lanes, but that's situational.

I will go for a lane gank if/when I feel it stands a good chance of success. Likely, I'm too hesitant though, as I often won't go that route unless I'm confident I can get into our brush without being seen. Additionally, I just don't seem to have the same success rate with forcing a kill/b/flash when coming from lane than from river or their jungle.

As I said, it's likely I'm just overreacting to a few recent poor games, some by me, some by teammates, most by both. My frustration stems from not seeming to have as large of a visible impact on lanes as I would like, and that's probably too much of an obsession with kills. I think I'll focus on more aggressively counterjungling/warding/oracle clearing.

Thank you for the input.

FaerellG 06-03-2012 08:41 PM

One of the key things about jungle ganks that a lot of people don't realize is that it's the laner's responsibility to initiate the gank. I mean, there are 2 situations here right? Either the jungler initiates or the lane initiates.

The key factor is how much map awareness the opponent has. You can reduce your opponent's map awareness by distracting them. So if you as the jungler show your face in lane and try to gank, they're going to realize it's 3v2 and run away.

But if your lane initiates the gank, they'll either have to suffer the damage and run, or they'll fight back and then your opponent's eyes will be focused on the laning opponents and there is a much greater chance that they won't see the jungler coming in until it's way too late.

Etherimp 06-03-2012 09:29 PM

Well, there are a few points on this to touch on..

1. Communication is key. Ask your lanes if they are warded.. Ask them to tell you WHEN they see a ward go down. For example, if I am playing solo-top, I will watch for when my opponent briefly goes away then comes back to lane, especially if they just recalled .. check their inventory, and then I'll warn my jungler, "Top lane warded in tribush/gankbush". This lets them know to use an alternative route.

2. Time their wards.. if you know when (approximately) they were placed, then you know (approximately) when they will expire .. 3 minutes after they were placed. This information is especially useful if the lane turns into a farm fest where nobody wants to recall and supports run out of wards and don't want to leave their carry alone due to potential harassment/ganks.

3. Use ninja ganks/lane ganks, as mentioned above.. Ask your team to push the lane past the middle temporarily, then sneak into the bush and wait there for the enemy to give you an opportunity, or wait for your support champ to create an opportunity (Taric/Leona/Alistar are great for this.)

4. Use alternative routes. Often times by-passing the river and going through the enemy jungle to enemy tri-bush (while dangerous), can result in surprise ganks.

5. Dive from behind the tower... If you're running a relatively bulky champion and you have flash or ghost, you can usually get away with diving from behind the turret as long as your teammates have the wave pushed up to the turret.. this way the turret won't fire on you until you actually damage an enemy champion, and it gives your team the freedom to deal damage to them while you take a few tower shots and then escape via flash. Bot lane will usually throw you some heals or a shield in this case, character permitting.

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