League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Summoner's Rift (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=48)
-   -   Please stop jungling. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2129877)

MagnusCeleritas 05-18-2012 07:54 AM

Please stop jungling.
 
Out of every 100 games I play with a jungler on my team, there are about 3 competant junglers. The other 97 are either incompetant, dont even know what the role of the jungler is, refuse to take up lanes missing players, gank at horrible times (and then scream at their team for not helping), or stay in the jungle the entire game, even in mid/late game.

I am fully convinced that 99% of players don't know what jungling is even suppose to be like, and mostly just stay in the jungle and gank. 2% of players are LUCKY enough to get kills when they jungle without knowing what to do, perhaps because they are good at the normal gameplay.

I'd honestly say about 1 in every 100 games with a jungler, the jungler actually helps all around the map, uses wards properly, protects lanes, assists for ganks, and stays in the jungle only when necessary.

Elsantrich 05-18-2012 09:10 AM

Or just maybe, you and the rest of the team should stop pushing your lanes from the get go and actually give your jungler a chance to gank. Also, not your jungler fault for not being able to gank when your losing your lane brutally all game long. 99% of people that complain about junglers dont know how to cs without aa every single minion.

SephĂŻroth 05-18-2012 09:16 AM

^True story.

Oracle Fefe 05-18-2012 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnusCeleritas (Hozzászólás 24375141)
Out of every 100 games I play with a jungler on my team, there are about 3 competant junglers. The other 97 are either incompetant, dont even know what the role of the jungler is, refuse to take up lanes missing players, gank at horrible times (and then scream at their team for not helping), or stay in the jungle the entire game, even in mid/late game.

I am fully convinced that 99% of players don't know what jungling is even suppose to be like, and mostly just stay in the jungle and gank. 2% of players are LUCKY enough to get kills when they jungle without knowing what to do, perhaps because they are good at the normal gameplay.

I'd honestly say about 1 in every 100 games with a jungler, the jungler actually helps all around the map, uses wards properly, protects lanes, assists for ganks, and stays in the jungle only when necessary.

How about you also try looking at it from the junglers perspective? Perhaps you have a missing lane at top while jungler is at bot golems, gank at horrible times due to laners overextending, continue to ask for ganks/berate him for not ganking. Some junglers can't do well ganks until level 6(ww, wukong slightly) or when the enemies get their skills (alistar, sometimes nunu.)

The jungle is their main source of reliable xp and gold. Xp can be gained frm pushing lanes hard and gold can from killing champs but they just aren't reliable.

Hell. I've had games where I was doing swell in jungling. As wukong I got blue, stole enemy junglers big wraith, lv2 ganked mid, cleared my jungle, gank top, back. So far no kills but I gave my team a hp advantage. I then go to bot and the ad carry, close to dying, decides to help me which gets him bombed by a zilean that I've managed to kill alone. I counterjungled the jungler and even killed him and stole his blue buff for my mid and id protect his lane as he backed.

However, the enemy mid went bot after I pinged many times to get back as I chased him. He ended up getting a double kill before escaping and got fed from there. From that moment on I was being called a bad jungler by them (ad MF and AP alistar..he wasn't building support or even gp10.) Top gave up because they felt our champion choices were not OP, and mid ended up losing his lane to the enemy lane despite my ganks and warding around the river (entrances of all enemy jungler routes.)

In short, sometimes junglers can have bad games, but its not all the jungler 98 or 99% of the time. That's a stereotype that has shown itself quite a bit.

SummonYerMaw 05-18-2012 09:45 AM

Are you suggesting that people stop jungling entirely and have 2 bot 1 mid 2 top?

I'd much prefer a bad player jungle than a bad player double up at top.

MagnusCeleritas 05-18-2012 09:49 AM

Look at it from a jungler's perspective? ROFLMAO!

I play as jungle half of the time and dont act like the 97 / 100 players do. Unlike them, I successfully jungle/lane/gank/own as jungle.

I don't have to see through a jungler's perspective to suddenly realize "Oh those 97 junglers dont suck, they just have it hard and lack a good team!" No. It's entirely them, because they suck.

I dont think you guys understand... most "junglers" dont even know what jungle's role is.

SwiftC3 05-18-2012 09:56 AM

i love how as a jungler, you relieve someone in a lane, and they complain about you "pushing the lane", or or stealing their CS, meanwhile the enemy jungler sees you in lane and steals your buffs. Or if you are asked to relieve a lane, and you tell them start b, but you go for wraiths, wolves or golems while still keeping an on their lane, they start pinging like crazy.

my 2nd favorite thing is top lane asking for a gank when you are at bot lane or covering, then they get really aggressive and die, and call the jungler a noob for not ganking at the moment they called for it.


As for the guy above me.... a Junglers role isn't just gank and get kills. It has many roles in itself, which can be warding and counterwarding, ganking for kills or to have the enemy burn summoner spells. To provide relief for a person needing to buy. To allow a laner to go solo so they can get full xp and cs.

As a "jack of all trades - master of none". I understand my roles clearly.

As jungler :Get kills if possible, if not, forcing them out of lane or to burn a summoner is good enough for me, do not give up a double or triple kill because of a dive.

As a solotop: my job is to farm, harass, not push the lane and not lose the lane. If I die its more than likely my own fault, because its a duel, even if the enemy junlger comes and i get ganked it means I was outsmarted.

As mid: see solotop.

As AD carry, job is to FOCUS Farm then harrass, take kills when set up to, but not push my lane.

As support: ward/counter ward, provide the harrassment and heals to my team mate, while watching the map.


As a support, nothing irritates me more than watching my carry miss CS because I am harassing and zoning the enemy and they think they need to come do the same. I play 0cs until i get irritated and then i just start being a jerk and taking it all.

Queen Sejuani 05-18-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnusCeleritas (Hozzászólás 24375141)
Out of every 100 games I play with a jungler on my team, there are about 3 competant junglers. The other 97 are either incompetant, dont even know what the role of the jungler is, refuse to take up lanes missing players, gank at horrible times (and then scream at their team for not helping), or stay in the jungle the entire game, even in mid/late game.

I am fully convinced that 99% of players don't know what jungling is even suppose to be like, and mostly just stay in the jungle and gank. 2% of players are LUCKY enough to get kills when they jungle without knowing what to do, perhaps because they are good at the normal gameplay.

I'd honestly say about 1 in every 100 games with a jungler, the jungler actually helps all around the map, uses wards properly, protects lanes, assists for ganks, and stays in the jungle only when necessary.

Just to clarify a few things:

1)If you lose your lane horribly, the jungler is NOT supposed to come to your lane and babysit you because you got outplayed in lane. Why does the jungler have to suffer and help you out because you are the one being bad and losing on your own? Chances are that the enemy is levels higher than the jungler and more farmed (due to lane creeps giving better experience and gold, as well as getting kills off of the enemy champion) What is the jungler supposed to do? Run in and give a double? Please have some common sense.

2) A jungler can't gank if you push your lane or river/tri brush is warded. The jungler is just going to waste his time and get under leveld once again. If you really need help that much, make sure that the enemy HAS a ward and pink ward it so the jungler can help you out. If you don't do that while the enemy has warded, don't expect him to help you out.

3) There are different types of junglers. Some that can gank noticeably great when they hit lvl 6, some that can't gank at all, and some that are SUPPOSED to farm the jungle since they can't really do anything else. I have seen people yell at me for dieing 3 minutes into the game and saying "NOOB MALPHITE NEVER GANKS MY LANE" When I just hit lvl 4 in the jungle. Then there are junglers like Shyvana or Mundo, that have pretty bad ganking potential BUT they clear their jungler really fast. Those type of junglers either invade the enemy jungle, or AFK farm theirs all day long. What else do you want them to do when they have barely any CC or any reliable CC?

4)A jungler has to keep track of his jungle. Especially early on in the game because the enemy jungler will know when your buffs will spawn. You can't expect him to hold your lane for you like a slave while you have to go back to base to buy that oh so precious Doran's Ring because you mash your spells way too hard and can't sustain your mana with the innate mana regen per 5 or runes/masteries.

5) If a jungler gets invaded alot, he is going to be underleveld thus making it unable for him to gank a lane and help you out. This is why he has to farm a lane sometimes or stay in his jungle to catch up on levels. Would you rather have him try to gank your lane, fail horribly, and fall back even more? Or would you want him to catch up in farm and level so he can actually contribute to skirmishes in mid game? Also in 80% of cases, YOU are supposed to help out your jungler if he gets invaded. It ALWAYS ends up in a 2v1 for a slight amount of time due to you being closer to your jungle than the enemy is. You should especially keep an eye on that if you have a jungler that is prone to counterjungling (Amumu, Sejuani etc.)


Cut them some slack, jungling is not an easy role and no matter how you look at it, it is ALWAYS the bad players that scapegoat the jungler for their incompetence of getting r a p e d in lane. If stuff like that happens, maybe you should brush up your skills instead of blaming your jungler for something he is not responsible for.

Also buy wards, you can't get ganked in most cases if your entrances are warded. It only starts to become fatal when somebody starts to get an Oracles and clears the wards you place. This is when you should be careful.

MagnusCeleritas 05-18-2012 10:27 AM

All these so-called junglers claiming to explain what jungling is, but you are in the minority. For every 1 of you good junglers who KNOW what a jungle's role is...there are 99 newbs (most who dont even read the forums or know what forums are) who think jungling is sticking to killing jungle minions for the fun of it from start to end game.

Slashinghardest 05-18-2012 10:49 AM

In my experience Mundo has good ganks all game and shyv at 6 with great diving potrntial but junglers ganking also depends on your team doing some before gank damage. You askinh for a gank against someone with 2k hp is pointless they will get away too easily and it wastes my time. The thing that pisses me off the most is people saying it's my fault when they die multiple times because they didn't only feed but they don't know how to adjust there playstyle and build to suit a player who is underfarmed. Ie the kog maw who still starts with madreds br because its what they always do. Players who can't adapt are destined to be low elo forever. Maybe at your ELO junglers suck but generally at mine they know what they are doing and if they don't then I think as someone who mains jungler it's OUR responsibility to help them become good gankers, and junglers.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:50 AM.


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc