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-   -   Why Master Yi is bad/needs a rework. (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1780966)

sirplayalot11 02-02-2012 01:30 PM

Why Master Yi is bad/needs a rework.
 
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EDIT# This was made FOREVER ago, when Yi was considered garbage(AD yi still is) and AP yi back then was trollish/viable every once in a while, so don't jump the gun people.

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Okay, I'm tired of seeing these troll threads saying "Yi is OP" and "Why is Yi bad? He hits so hard."

Ok lets start off with the obvoius, his Pros and Cons:
Pros:
-Hits hard(AD Auto Attack, AP Alpha Strike)
-Self Heal(Better on AP Yi)
-Great Backdoor
-Resetting Ultimate

Cons:
-Easily harassed in lane
-(Jungle) Ganks are okay, but with no proper CC, sets up opponents for a simple 'walk away' or Stun+Burst combo.
-Ultimate requires a Kill to actually put into use, and can only be done so many times due to shallow mana pool
-Stun Plus focus in team fights makes him an easy first kill, dead men can't do damage.
-Better choices than him in most team selects, no matter if he goes top, bottom, or jungle
-Has no real CC, needs Summoner spells/items to compensate
-Only sustain susceptible to CC

Yi is my favorite Champ, cause he was my first buy(450, duh), but when I got shut down so many times by a single Stun, snare, etc, I felt useless in team fights. Back then I was sure cause I didn't play him right, but then I got into ranked games and watche d alot of videos, and Master Yi was always classified as nothing more than a backdoorer who doesnt get seen past 1700 Elo.

The problem is, well, the obvious, he's easily counter by CC, something a lot of Melee Damage dealers have eases going around, as well as lack of CC. Why jungle Yi when Tryndamere is up for grabs? Or even Gankplank? I can just spin in and slow them down, and whack away, or shoot them in the back with a Passive+Red buff combo, and slowly wreck on them.(Note: I am not saying you should jungle GP if Solo top is up for grabs).

Okay, like all others, lets start with spells and abilities.

Passive: extra hit every 7th strike? Fine with this. the Double Strike can't crit? I am saddened, but unsure about changing that.

Q Alpha Strike: Its a nice gap closer, and albeit pretty handy becoming untargettable as you approach a target. But you don't really want to initiate a fight during laning phase, and the jungling extra boost is pretty random if it'll come off or not, and not to mention the CD is pretty long early game.
Using this to harass during early game = good. Reliability this will hit your opponent and not just 4 random minions = not so good.

W Meditate: At first this looked good on paper, a meditated channeled heal which gave more defenses. But the fact that a silence, stun, knock up, etc cancels this really saddens me. And even if it were to go through, it would only recover 1/3 his health, if not less. Only place i see viable is on an AP Yi.

E Wuju Style: Also looked nice on Paper, but really, the most I can see is a benefit of 105 Attack Damage, only if you got a kill from Highlander, without that, 70 Damage for a certain amount of time (BF item) or passively 35(PickAxe Item). I wish they added a bit more damage. Playing him I thought this was amazing, but the fact it only gets its 70 Damage for a bit and then loses it altogether afterwards, feel sub par to a lot of damage increasing spells, i.e. Trynd Q, Sion E, Olaf W, Mundo E, etc.

R Highlander: This is nice, 80% attack Speed, movement speed increase plus invulnerable to slows. Thats nice. But he still can be whacked in the face by a Sion Stun, Udyr Stun, Lux Snare, Morgana Snare, whataver, and waste his ult, or even turn around and squish him, as he his squishy.
Not only that, but his spells cost quite a bit, so after killing someone, you may have the refreshed, but you may go oom after another alpha strike, and be less of a threat then originally thought out.

But if we were to give him CC or a resistance to such(excluding slow) then he'll actually will be 'OP' in some sense of saying.
Im not saying make him another Olaf, or Tryndamere, or eat freacking oranges, but at least rework some of the more 'useless-during-endgame-moves'.

Like meditate W doesn't really do much endgame when the team has a reliable CC, nor does the heal actually give you any advantage over an opponent (except AP Yi).

A remake I was thinking is that it scales off both AP and AD, and instead of just the armor+mr buff, also give some sort of resistance to CC in some way or form.

Probably something like: "Active: Yi meditates over 3 seconds, giving # Armor and Magic Resist, making him immune to crowd control, and healing him for #(+.3 AP)(+.3 Bonus AD) per tick"
Or something of the sort.

And his Q I have large skeptics about. It probably should prioritize champs, despite the target, but that sounds like too much harass for a Melee Carry to have over a ranged.

His E I want to either give more, be it more Damage, some attack Speed(even if it only reaches 12% last rank), Armor Pen, something that just would make it more than a temporary boost that seems viable early game, but practically something you don't notice end game.

And his R is nice, can't think of how to change this in anyway or form. Maybe if it Slowed the targets he hit when it was active?

Because really, Yi right now is a Kill or be Killed champ, and when a simple stun can ruin your damage in a fight to nothing, this puts all your farm to not. Other champs, as mention previously, have ways to counter this, Trynds Endless Rage, Olaf Ragnarok, Gp Oranges, Mundo(even Mundo) W to reduce CC, Poppy diplomatic, etc. The fact that you have to invest in a QSS, Cleanse, etc, to remove this issue just means you're removing resources to further you're strength, CC(exhaust, FM), and so on.
He is a good backdoorer, but to only have him around for that seems pretty boring and sad.

If you have any ideas on how a small rework may make Yi a more viable choice in a Normal/Ranked Game, or just your opinion in general,please comment below.

EDIT: Just like someone mentioned, when would a team ever need to pick up a Yi? He's a damage dealer, but he's always last to be chosen, if at all. Bottom is more likely to have a ranged AD, top has so many options with Champions that have viable combos, i.e. Riven dash stun, GP harass/sustain, Nasus sustain/farm+siphon, etc. and jungle is always taken with Skarner, Udyr, Shaco, Sion, Olaf, and so forth. If he were given some sort of CC, even a slow on the Ult, or an adjustment to his Q, or a better sustain ability with W, he could actually be a more viable choice, or be considered to be picked in a team select.

EDIT #2, 1/22/2013
Just updating this a bit, I loved master yi to death when I first got him and I have yet see much of anything happen to him that would otherwise affect his AD standing in today's current meta.

Jaykoboy 02-02-2012 01:35 PM

You're succumbing to the new meta. If you need stuns to do well with characters who are already fine, then you're not skilled. For example: Renekton requires little ability to play because he has a hard stun+bonus damage. Then, if you buy a Rylai's Scepter, his ultimate turns into a raging AoE slow. He's also got an easy escape and an easy heal.

Warwick's good. He doesn't have CC, discounting his ult. So, to be precise, he doesn't have RELIABLE CC. Tryndamere's good. He has a slow, but ONLY if they're not facing him. Really, as I already said, anyone, even Evelynn, is good with hard, reliable CC. If they can't move, then they can't do anything, right? So yeah. Shame on the meta-follower.

Red Ryu 02-02-2012 01:35 PM

Could you explain why he needs buff, I mean losing stark's favor hits him hard as well but what about him is so bad he need a rework over other champs?

6odwin 02-02-2012 01:36 PM

so 4 vs 2 in favor of pros. you pretty much argued against yourself. yi is fine the way he is.

sirplayalot11 02-02-2012 01:39 PM

I wasnt able to finish
I clicked submit before I had the time to post evertyhing up
How do I delete this thread?

EDIT: Well instead of deleting, I got it up and all finished out, so all comments previous this are mostly null and void.

Invictrix 02-02-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirplayalot11 (Hozzászólás 20513990)
I wasnt able to finish
I clicked submit before I had the time to post evertyhing up
How do I delete this thread?

We would have to downvote you to negative 20 in order for the thread to close, but I think we can work with what you have there. I think Yi is good for a new player since you don't have to worry about some things that other champions do, but he really doesn't do well in higher level play, because
1. Everyone has already played with or played against like a thousand yi's
2. He does lack cc
3. He is pretty squishy
4. Thornmail yo

Maybe there is a situation where you would want a yi on your team, but I don't know what that would be.

If you want a more advanced yi it looks like you should play talon.

vileguy 02-02-2012 01:47 PM

You can't really just walk away from him with red + ultimate, but his ganks are only decent, and without red or phage they're awful.

He's pretty bad and incapable of laning with the current bulky requirements for melee, but honestly they can't just buff him with his current backdooring potential. I agree, he needs a rework if the meta stays the same. Personally, I'd like to see them lower damage across the board by a lot so that the squishy melee dps can actually be played. Right now, melee champs largely need to build items like warmogs, frozen hammer, wriggles, etc. to not get instantly killed. It's really sad because some of the original champions like Yi and Jax, which have almost no survival abilities, are pretty much screwed.

sirplayalot11 02-02-2012 02:29 PM

Bumping this since I actually finished it up, but there is more I have in mind on him though.

And Like I said in there, he is strong, he's got potential, but he has almost no survivability. (Running away faster really doesn't count).

MarineRevenge 02-02-2012 02:33 PM

Master Yi can be good/strong but he requires a certain setup and to be played a certain way in different stages of the game to set him up for success.

Hate to be a self promoter, but here's my Yi Guide if you're interested in looking at it. You might find a way to play him thats enjoyable to you. http://www.solomid.net/guides.php?g=12072=

sirplayalot11 02-02-2012 03:47 PM

Bumping this cause the first few comments are on what was on a 90% incomplete post, and the rest really didn't give me much feedback.


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