League of Legends Community

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Dominion (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=43)
-   -   Dominion Tier List (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1404811)

Elealar 10-25-2011 04:56 AM

Dominion Tier List
My take (not enough experience with Xerath and Graves to place 'em yet; Xerath's prolly 2 and Graves is 2 or 3 I guess tho):
Tier 1: Blitzcrank, Cassiopeia, Ezreal, Gangplank, Kassadin, Zilean
Tier 2: Akali, Anivia, Brand, Caitlyn, Gragas, Heimerdinger, Karthus, Katarina, Kayle, Kennen, Kog'Maw, Irelia, Janna, Lee Sin, Lux, Maokai, Nidalee, Nocturne, Poppy, Rammus, Rumble, Ryze, Shaco, Singed, Sona, Soraka, Talon, Udyr, Vayne, Warwick, Yorick
Tier 3: Alistar, Cho'Gath, Corki, Evelynn, Galio, Garen, Jarvan, Jax, Karma, LeBlanc, Malphite, Malzahar, Miss Fortune, Morgana, Mundo, Olaf, Orianna, Pantheon, Renekton, Riven, Sion, Sivir, Swain, Teemo, Tristana, Trundle, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Urgot, Vladimir, Wukong, Xin Zhao
Tier 4: Amumu, Annie, Ashe, Fiddlesticks, Leona, Master Yi, Mordekaiser, Nasus, Nunu, Shen, Skarner, Taric, Tryndamere, Veigar

Tier 1 champs are champs I'd seek to pick every game. Ones that simply make or break games and are absolute best at what they do (Blitzcrank the best CC-machine tanky DPS, Cassiopeia the best rounded mage, Ezreal the best AD, GP the other best tanky DPS, Kassadin the best assassin, Zilean the best supporting mage).

Tier 2 is the upper end of champions (better defenders, better attackers, better 1v1 roamers, better bot laners, etc.). All can dominate games and perform their job more than adequately.

Tier 3 has less generalist champions that can be amazing against given comps; basically, champions that can perform absolutely horrendously if counterpicked but completely munch on the enemy team when picked in the right match-up. They're all still usually incredibly viable but they can be counterpicked and made less useful by savvy teams.

Tier 4 contains the most niche champions that, while still being able to shine in some cases, need very specific team comps to be amazing or are simply somewhat mediocre currently. Some are just outdone by higher tier champions; Annie vs. Brand is an obvious example where Annie's long cooldowns and short range just make her a clearly inferior pick.

Obviously, I evaluate things the map emphasizes:
- Kiting capability (the biggest reason tanky DPS just isn't all that good on this map; lots of walls especially around the points, kiting is bloody easy)
- Ability to hold points for a long while against superior numbers (Zilean is a ****ing God at this; Poppy is also pretty darn good and long range mages like Anivia & Cassiopeia also shine here - and of course Karthus's ghost)
- Efficient map control and sieging or some other means of taking points fast
- Mobility (if relevant to the champions; the best defenders obviously have and need no mobility though Zilean still has a ton, which is why he's so ridiculous)
- Team effect (some champs just make your team more efficient; Janna's E & passive, Zilean's passive, E & ult, GP's E, Sona in general, Taric in general are all examples)
- Straight fighting and pushing ability (certainly, it's worth a lot to just be able to brawl; gives you more control over the map and makes pushing safer and especially defines the opening fight)
- Map influence (ok, so if a champion has global/near-global ultimate he's probably gonna affect the map outside his position a lot, and this is obviously powerful when you need to defend multiple points at once)

Champ-specific explanations
Tier 1:
Blitzcrank is one of the biggest beneficiaries of Dominion; his problem on SR was always farming efficiently and that problem doesn't exist on this map. He has a pull to dislodge defenders from points, low CD Power Fist (which is also an auto attack reset) + W for massive melee damage alongside ult procs and then the ult itself. He's a walking CC machine with the pull (which has a small stun attached), the knock-up and the silence on his ultimate. He's also really **** tanky with some of the highest base stats in the game and Passive which can easily translate into 1000 extra HP in the midgame.

Cassiopeia has insanely long harass range and great sustained damage. Quite possibly the best Will of the Ancients-user in the game, she's incredibly hard to dislodge from a point and with Ult she can easily go 2v1 or 3v1 in many cases. Doesn't hurt her early game is great without hurting her lategame.

Ezreal is a supergood poker as well, with Mystic Shot's 1000 range and Arcane Shift's inexistent CD as long as you keep landing Mystic shots. He also has a 50% ASpd steroid on his passive and the shortest CD global ultimate again thanks to Mystic Shots. He beats most anti-AD types simply because few champs can actually answer Mystic Shot spam from a massive range followed by Arcane Shift to re-establish gap. Again, superb early game and scales rather well; eventually you'll have to utilize your autoattacks more since they can crit tho. Amusing fact: You can Arcane Shift over the wall between mid point/bot point and the summoning platform making him probably the fastest champ for capping mid or bot with, even if he doesn't start with boots (Arcane Shift to rank 2 with the Brutalizer and CDR runes).

Gangplank is rather tanky off the bat with Remove Scurvy and again, has a global ultimate to go with a solid tanky DPS shell including a slow + massive ranged damage & great speed from his E. Nothing much to say, I don't think any other Tanky DPS offers as much as GP does.

Kassadin is an incredibly mobile assassin; it's pretty much impossible to pin him down or run from him. He generates a massive burst in a hurry and begins dealing obscene damage while his passive only fuels his attack speed. He's probably the best backdoorer too, being able to kill most defenders 1v1 and being supereasy to escape with, when it becomes necessary (just for crying out loud, don't build Priscilla's Blessing). Funny fact: You can Riftwalk from the summoning platform to the lane.

Zilean is an insanely mobile mage who loves Tanky DPS teammates. His Bombs have some of the highest early burst since he only needs 1 rank in Rewind to deliver two max rank Bombs in burst, and they are AOE to boot. Once he caps out CDR and maxes Rewind, he moves at obscene speed and can actually keep himself and one ally hasted all the time; and with constant Rewind-spam his ultimate cooldown is ~30 seconds or so. Further, his global passive means your team will hit level 6 first for the Windmill, which is obviously pretty **** strong and often wins the second Windmill battle single-handedly (as long as your team has some worthwhile ultimates). He also defends points like a boss with bombs disrupting casting and him having slow/speed buff and Revive to make him extremely hard to remove from a point. And his double bomb actually is pretty good for pushing too, and Time Warp + Double Bomb is great for wearing down dedicated defenders; he just does everything well.

Tier 2
Akali offers an extremely solid set of damage and sustain for a melee mage. Admittedly risky, played well she forces answers from the opposing team and can absolutely tear people apart unchecked. There's some line-ups she isn't especially effective against (lots of tanky people she can't burst down; once she's outta ult stacks she can't do much), and if her stealth is negated, life becomes a living hell for her but as long as she can stay hidden, she'll just kill people.

Anivia is a rather immobile champion. But of course, she's an insane defender. Not only does she has Walls to postpone attacks, she also has slow + stun + slow and some of the highest burst in the game. And if she's killed under her own tower, the attacker has to either tank the turret or let her respawn with the egg. She also pushes very strong and controls jungle paths with the Walls in a borderline unfair manner. Overall, I'd say she's the best space controller in the game. The only reason she isn't Tier 1 is that she needs to itemize a lot to maintain a sufficient manapool especially since Tear is infeasible on this map; the increased mana regeneration is nothing to the hotrod-that-runs-on-mana.

Brand is, I feel, a weaker Cassiopeia. He has great burst but little sustained damage, he scales worse and doesn't make nearly as good a use out of WotA. He's still solid on bot and his big selling point is the stun on his Q which makes him very strong against jumpers but if his ult doesn't have bounce targets it deals a tad uninspiring damage. That said, he can still beast the lane against most people with obscene range and massive AOEs, and he does some percentile damage with his passive which is real nice. Overall, a solid pick.

Caitlyn has Net to re-establish distance if somebody jumps on her, she has a really impressive range, she has the traps to control jungle passages/defend points/lay right in front of her when someone is about to jump her and insane range on her Peacemaker and Ult. She isn't as mobile as Ezreal nor does she have as long a range consistently but her traps make up for a lot and she's a safe pick against most line-ups. Of note, she's also one of the best AD-damage dealing bot laners (up there with Yorick) with her solid pushing potential.

Gragas is one of the better picks though not as a primary damage dealer. While the Body Slam + Barrel combo hurts and his ult really hurts, only his Q and R have real good scaling. That said, he pokes at a massive range with solid AOEs while regenerating constantly from all his attacks; his W gives him solid 18% damage reduction and his E makes him mobile as hell while also making chasing easy with the slow and mobility. And his R is prolly the biggest reason to pick him; the cooldown is ridiculously low at a hair over 30 seconds with max CDR (you 100% want max CDR on this fella), and it makes capturing points oh so easy. Knock defends to your team, kill them all. It also has defensive utility though it obviously isn't as useful in those cases (just plain spamming Barrels and Body Slamming around tends to be more than adequate far as defense goes tho). Obviously he's less useful against supertanky line-ups since he's all burst and his burst isn't all that high tho.

Heimerdinger is...I really don't need to type this out, do I? One of the best defenders on the map; the towers make approaching a point real hard and the rockets and grenade both have a solid range. While his turrets can be removed by long range champs, the cooldown is pretty short and it always takes time while he's doing his rocket ****, and jumping him generally earns you a grenade to the face while two turrets shoot at you followed by rockets. His pushing is quite strong and his only real weakness are true assassins with CC like Kassadin, Nocturne or Talon. Of course, he can generally afford to build tanky to help with just that.

Karthus is yet another beastly bottom. His only flaw is lack of hard CC. Global ult makes defending ridiculously easy, he outpushes just about anybody with .6 second cooldown Lay Waste, walking next to him kills you with Defile and getting hit by a Wall = no MR and easy Lay Wasting for him. And yeah, he defends all points with his ult. And if he dies, he still holds a point for 8 seconds from any number of attackers. I've won games by 2 points where I died at enemy bottom as Karthus with 4 of them trying to cap it; ghost says "No!" But yeah, no hard CC = he dies to assassins supereasy. Then again, he still defends while dead so that's not that big a deal.

Katarina is kind of a dark horse. She has her natural weakness to CC breaking Death Lotus like ever but with the pace on which you get kills on this map, her cooldowns just wind down like a clockwork and if she can get even 2-3 rounds off Death Lotus, she's healed a ****ton and done more than enough damage. Her passive is just godlike on Dominion with people dying all the time. Less useful for poking or

Kayle is surprisingly strong. One of the champs with more of the farm-related issues on SR, her kit is real good on Dominion. She scales into a decent damage dealer quite easily and has the speed boost/slow combination to make it easy for her to reach places while slowing opponents. She also wrecks face. And her ultimate obviously allows her (or any teammate) to practically 1v1 (or 2v2) anybody and the cooldown is pretty **** short to boot; in the 30 sec area with max CDR. And yeah, thanks to her passive she chews a significant chunk of anybody's armor/MR.

Kennen is a great poker and his only real flaw is that he isn't Ezreal. His ultimate is still beastly but Lightning Rush is only a speed boost, not a teleport. He does very solid damage and has the auto attack procs to go with the QWER setup. Of course a tad tricky to play, a well played Kennen is a terror indeed.

Kog'Maw is...well, again everybody knows. He does the highest damage in the game. Period. He attacks you, you die. He has a massive AOE slow to keep anyone without a gap closer from getting to him and he has tons of stats improving his auto attacks and he has insane range (highest in the game, indeed). And his ult is stupid long range defending points from miles away and poking defenders; the damage is actually quite high against champions. His only flaw is the lack of escape against people with gap closers (though Void Ooze to the direction he's escaping to and then walking over it generally does the trick if you aren't already dead) though he shreds people so fast it's not even always a problem.

Irelia is a tanky DPS assassin. Whopsee Riot. Yeah, she's real good. She heals quite a bit even with the healing nerf, does true damage to fight other Tanky DPS very profittably and is quite mobile to boot and has a (conditional) stun. Not much to say here; she doesn't do quite as much as e.g. Blitz but she still wrecks face.

Janna does everything. You obviously build her AP with max CDR on this map, and try to band together with at least one ally. Her WQ does surprisingly decent damage (1.55 AP ratio) and more importantly, W is a massive slow and Q is an AOE knock-up. She also has a knockback in her R and the E is a shield; in other words, she's incredibly disruptive. Shield also has a massive .9 AP ratio so it gets real tanky in a hurry, not to mention the AD boost; 50 AD on a mid game Ezreal with Brutalizer + Sheen + Boots? Yeah, he's gonna rip face. And the heal on her R is real good after a big fight where 4 of you are low (or for healing during fight as appropriate; AOE heal with decent AP ratio, what's not to love?). And her passive is 3% Move Speed for the whole team; pretty nice when people are taking Utility-tree just for those 3% there. It's for free. For everybody. And she herself has massive move speed boost in her W passive.

Lee Sin is yet another obvious one. Tanky DPS with the best AD ratios in the game. He's mobile (though less so without Wards; need Teemo Shrooms to jump to), he hurts a lot, he counters stealth that many of the more obnoxious champs depend on, he does it all. Dragon's Rage even means he can dislodge a defender quite easily and yeah, he hurts like a truck. Only reason he isn't tier 1 is the lesser mobility than on SR.

Lux pokes at a range; as long as you can land her skillshots, you can be incredibly obnoxious with decent damage and quite useful for your team. Much like Nidalee, she's less about diving in and more about poking people but her pokes come with slows and snares and her ultimate is like half the map here. She's very hard to pin down simply due to her range and does surprising damage with Q proc, E proc and obviously R. And her shield is actually pretty good, if you use it in fight; it's pretty easy to land the doublehit and use both halves at which point it's superbly efficient. Obviously hard to play but very good when used to her full potential.

Maokai is a great bottom that really doesn't do much else, but becomes annoyingly tanky for the lane opponent to deal with and pushes like a boss. And unlike most bots, he's real hard to gank. While he lacks hard CC, the Snare enables him to land his combo and his ultimate makes him pretty **** tanky. That's about all there is to him.

Nidalee is a great champ for good teams. She keeps chucking spears (they HURT and lots of walls to hurl them from), healing people and being an obnoxious PiTA that you just can't touch. And when you do get to her, you're at ˝ HP and she turns into a cougar and eats you. She doesn't carry games but she does make it supereasy for anybody else on your team to carry games. She's just a great defender and the traps are actually supremely important since controlling the jungle prevents backdooring, ambushes leading into caps and all manners of obnoxious stuff. She isn't a solo fighter that kills enemies 1v1 but she softens the entire enemy team up and cleans up. And she's nearly untouchable between her passive and Pounce.

Nocturne is another tanky assassin. Not much to say; his stand-up fighting is real solid, his W makes him hard to shrug off (doubly more powerful on a map without Banshee's) and he can dive and kill anybody every ~80-60 secs. It's more or less a global ultimate on max level on this map which obviously makes it incredibly useful. And losing sight of your allies really hampers fighting in the jungle.

Poppy is the other huge beneficiary of not having to farm; her problem on SR was always getting her farmed after which she wrecks face. Her passive makes her stupidly tanky, especially since the map's inherent ArPen/MPen do not affect it. She has some of the highest burst in the game with her ult amplification and most importantly, it's really hard to stop her from killing one. Of course, her biggest problem is clearing more than one target; her cooldowns are rather high and while she's fast, her gap closer is on an ~8 second CD. Her ult is extremely hard to counter tho; outside Zilean, there are very few champions who can do anything about it (tho some champs can 1v1 her even under her ultimate, obviously, and those can be problematic for her; Olaf, Vayne & Irelia come to mind). But yeah, with a good team she can absolutely roll face being very tough to kill while delivering extremely high hybrid damage. Kiting is her biggest problem when her ult isn't around.

Rammus is great, though not as a backdoorer. He's fast, he's tanky, and he wrecks AD types. He's one of the best "temporary defenders" on the map; someone who just sits a point and blocks any cap attempts; he can get where he needs to be and support captures or hold points alone or just bail people out of fights in the middle of the map (3 second taunt!). With DBC and building defensive, he's so incredibly hard to kill and Tremors obviously makes capping impossible. He does surprisingly good damage and actually, a little-known fact is that he builds AD quite efficiently with his passive and E armor reduction. You just need some ASpd items with crit chance alongside Atmog's (which makes him stupid tanky too) and you're set. Tho plain tanky is perfectly viable and obviously defends points for the longest. Oh, and one of his biggest problems on SR is getting enough gold to get tanky. On Dominion, no such issues.

Rumble is raw damage. But he does ****tons of it. Do you know the AP ratio on a fully channeled Q with overheat? It's 1.755. Yeh, while other champs struggle to exceed 1.0 AP ratio (there's few ultimates that do, and Nidalee's spear at long ranges and possibly few Percentile abilities), this guy has an AOE with almost 2.0! Sure, it's hard to deliver but at that point, who cares? Even without Overheat it's 1.35, certainly not bad. And his E is 1.0 without overheat, 1.3 with. And his ultimate? Yeah, I prolly don't even need to say but it's 1.5 total (again in a massive AOE and with slow). He's also fast with his W and pretty tanky to boot and one of the best Will of the Ancients users in the game (behind Cassiopeia, perhaps). It's worth noting that Will of the Ancients is the only unnerfed source of lifesteal/spellvamp on Dominion so being good with it means quite a **** lot. Only reason he isn't tier 1 is because he's a mage without hard CC. But he can most certainly pull his weight and then some by just being a Stupid High Damage Bot™.

Ryze is again obvious. Tanky Mage with inherent Spellvamp in ult, decent CC and great damage? Yeah, he's strong. He lacks a bit in wave clearing power on bottom and his early game is kinda lackluster but once he gets going he's a beast. You can get ~2500 Health, ~190 Armor & ~150 MR on him while getting all the normal base values (a bit under 40% CDR, Voidstaff, Will, etc.). Not much I need to say about him.

Shaco is absolutely gamechanging. Many people love to play the easy AP Shaco, box brush/point and blink around throwing Es which, while somewhat functional, leaves your team fighting 4v5 most of the time. Best Shacos I've seen tho? AD Shaco. His E still does similar damage, his ultimate is insanely strong by comparison and his Deceive is actually useful for attacking at that point too. Boxes do very scary damage with just their base values; you don't need to go AP for them to wreck face. AD Shaco is a great defender and attacker; the clone practically doubles any AD her builds, still does 600 damage on detonation and then he has Deceive jumps into killing people with Backstab and box. AOE CC (albeit unreliable), damage multipliers, built-in slow, ranged nuke with slow to finish/chase and a blink+stealth to escape if things get hairy, he's a monster.

Singed is probably the simplest champ of them all to explain. This map is about going from place A to place B. When there's Singed between place A and place B, you can't go there because Singed will slow you, throw you back to slow and then slow you again all the while having you walk in his poison trail. Generally gratuitous amounts of trollface involved. He does start off a bit slow but he can pick Revive + Revive mastery to cover him for the first ~3 mins while he builds up his HP. The 400 extra has him covered. And obviously, can't touch him when he's ulting unless your name is Vayne (and it's actually a legal obligation for all Singed-players to run Dodge-runes and Nimbleness so even Vayne has her work cut out for her). Singed also defends points and tanks towers like a boss while throwing defends out of the tower range, onto Mega Adhesive. He definitely needs team help while attacking points but defending he can do all by himself. Do note that while additional poison ticks don't interrupt captures, the first tick does so just running past the 3 cappers will block them from capping.

Sona's power comes from a very unexpected build; AD Sona. As it turns out, Power Chords and Q's AD boost go real nice with Trinity Force & standard AD gear. Especially since her E Power Chord is slow; something that's 100 times more valuable on Dominion than on SR both because mobility is huge on this map, and because SR has redbuff while Dominion has everyone scrambling for some source of slow. Further, a champ with move speed Aura is good on Dominion (who knew) and having a stun on an AD chassis (even if it's your ultimate) is real nice. And her W makes her and one ally quite tanky, and if you build tanky on her she suddenly becomes real hard to kill. And giving allies 20 AD, 20 AP, 40 MR, 40 Armor & 14% Move Speed along with token healing to two at a time (adds up over time) is never a bad thing.

Soraka is a boss on bot. Basically, her shtick is maxing Starcall, wiping minion waves, building tanky and abusing Starcall MR reduction + Astral Blessing Heal & Armor Boost and her passive MR boost to wear people down (alongside Silence as desired, of course). She pushes insanely well, defends insanely well, keeps assisting your team from bot with the ~500-point heals and she's plain hard to kill. Odyn's Veil is actually the best thing that could ever happen to her making her tanky as **** while dealing amplified damage thanks to her MR Reduction from Starcall. Sunfire Cape, Abyssal Scepter, Rylai's Scepter & Frozen Heart are other gimmes (you definitely want 40% CDR to maximize Starcall iterations for maximum MR Reduction; combines nicely with Abyssal, obviously). Sunfire Cape I occasionally skip since Deathcap actually works quite well on her; even in spite of the map's aura it adds ~100 points to both her heals and most importantly, quite a bit of damage to Starcall when you have it down to 1.5 sec CD. It's about 0.27 AP to damage per second or slightly better than Anivia's Ultimate (.25 per second) for instance. Obviously goes well with other mages and people dealing magic damage and doesn't have to bot, though that's where her greatest talents lie (though there are teams against which you really want that 16 MR aura on top).

Talon is **** obvious. He does ****tons of damage. He's hard to pin down. When he attacks you, you're silenced so you can't do ****. Assassins are good on this map. Talon is no exception. While not quite as easy to build tanky as Irelia or Nocturne, he's far more elusive with Cutthroat and Shadow Assault. His only weakness is again supertanky teams, and ironically other assassins (though most of those matches are 50/50 depending on if he can lay his Silence down first or not).

Udyr is fast as a rocket, high damage, stuns, naturally incredibly tanky (2.2k HP, 86 Armor, 53 MR; beats even Blitzcrank), and does both physical and magical damage naturally. Oh, and comes with built-in Dodge for Vayne without being Jax so everybody doesn't know to build SotD for him. Get a Trinity on him, and you're a veritable rocket that stuns somebody and then rips their face off. While not really taking damage. Obviously likes lifesteal. And as ever, he's melee without a gap closer so his problem is kiting; he can't get to people like Ezreal or Cassiopeia unless they want him to, in which case he's already dead.

Vayne is stupid good and the only reason she isn't tier 1 is because she has to put herself in harms way to kill people while being squishy. She does percentile true damage allowing her to shred any melee opponents apart with rudimentary ASpd build, has Kog'Maw-like supercarry potential thanks to W and R scaling heavily by ASpd while Q and E scale decently by AD with strong early game, built-in stealth & mobility (more Caitlyn-level than Ezreal-level tho CD is closer to Ez's) and a stun to boot. Being the only strong ranged AD with stun really sets her apart.

Warwick is beastly. Currently way underrated for some reason; I guess people decided he doesn't do enough damage or something. Whatever. He's tanky as ****, chases/escapes like no other, has a suppression ult and heals himself like a machine while ripping your face off. Obviously his biggest selling point is his ult; the CD is rather low and you can't escape that. He keeps swiping until the target is dead. But yeah, he's insanely hard to kill, mobile & has the ult to really screw someone over. What's not to love?

Yorick is one of the best botlaners on the map. That's about all there is to him. He's a melee that happens to clear waves superfast, defends point for 10 secs after dying, can replicate any possible supercarries you might have, gets 15% DR from his passive and hurts like a truck. What's not to love? The ghouls even block many skillshots that many of the stronger champs rely on, and scale by his AD (tho not ArPen) so they hurt too.

Elealar 10-25-2011 04:58 AM

Tier 3
Alistar is a beast CC bot and a decent AD type but his long cooldowns kinda plague him here. I feel he's very similar to Blitz but Blitz is just stronger on this map. Sure, Alistar does have his ultimate which makes him superhard to kill for few secs but with Triumphant Roar being weakened by the Aura, he isn't as tanky as he's used to be. True damage really gnaws into him though against melee heavy line-ups Pulverize is as brutal as ever.

Cho'Gath is an alright bottom that has some really good match-ups, actually. He has trouble getting his full Feast stacks but once he gets there, he's an immovable object. I don't think he's the best as a general pick but he's definitely valuable as a counterpick to have in your bag of tricks. He does good damage, has good CC and good survivability; he's good all around. Only thing holding him tier 3 is the fact that he really needs to get a bot against which he can lane efficiently. This map has less creeps than SR which hurts his passive healing heavily.

Corki I don't like nearly as much as Ezreal, Vayne, Kog or Cait for this map. His biggest problem is he kinda needs to stay still to deal his damage and his range is kinda short. Now he does absolute metric ****tons of damage (though unfortunately large parts of his burst are magical and don't benefit of his ArPen) and does have Valkyrie for escape but people jumping in on him can really spoil his day. Still, when protected he hurts quite a bit and his ult does have a massive range for defending points, albeit the rate at which he replenishes the missiles is a bit low once he uses the initial 7. Really, his biggest problem is Valkyrie cooldown which means that while he can escape once, he has a hard time doing it again in the near future, and Gatling Gun really loses a lot of punch if you stutterstep back (even with Triforce he's a bit slow; too bad he can't usually fit a PD).

Evelynn is pretty good. Though as she always gets an obscene amount of kills, I feel people consider her a bit stronger than she really is. She definitely cleans up like nobody's business with the passive on her ult and she definitely benefits of the gradual gold gain when farming was always her problem on SR. She's an assassin so she needs squishies. Her biggest problem is that while she's greart at killing people in the jungle, she isn't good at either taking or defending points. She moves fast and she hurts but she isn't inherently tanky to tank towers while killing someone (not to mention they blow her stealth) and obviously nothing in her kit really allows her to defend very well. Obviously, detection abilities also spoil her day, though she can occasionally still outrun people thanks to her ult.

Galio is kind of a jack of all trades. He has fine ranged harass, he's quite tanky and he naturally counters mages. Of course, his biggest problem is ranged AD; they'll just tear him a new one. And his ultimate is far less useful than it could be on this map; the cooldown is real long and it's hard to land a good one on a point. That said, he pushes decently, defends decently and pokes well all the while being unkillable; I feel he's kinda a downgraded Gragas (solely due to the comparative utility difference between their ults, one being 130s CD at best while the other is 60s).

Garen is superb against most melee types. Silence > Spin-to-win; an age-old formula. He also would love to sit in brushes though unfortunately the actual lanes themselves are kinda devoid of any. His biggest problem is obviously kiting; not approach abilities other than speed boost makes him real easy to kite and he has a harder time farming his W passive fully too. Solid against teams that don't seek to kite but absolutely awful against kiting.

Jarvan is actually pretty strong early on and falls off a bit. He also does bursty damage with his passive + Dragon Strike + Cataclysm but his actual stand-up fighting isn't as good as most melees'. He has two strong CCs which is very nice for melee and the aura buff is pretty good. He's also inherently very tanky at no less than 94 base Armor. His approach is unfortunately a bit slow so fast enemies can dodge it quite easily (though Cataclysm of course works, except against the 94 things that can cross the impassable terrain). All that said, he isn't bad. Just not all that good against the better melee duelists and not all that strong against kiters; kinda middling regardless.

Jax - I know rite, what does he do in tier 3? Well, he fits the description perfectly; Jax will absolutely demolish some teams and be absolutely useless against others. He can also become quite the supercarry tho as snowballing is quite hard on this map due to the small gold gains, that's unlike to happen. He's got an approach and he's hard to kill physically and he has his ult for MR but outside his ults he has real trouble with mages, he has a hard time assaulting points and worst of all are AD types that use abilities; his Dodge is negated while he still needs Armor to defend against them. Make no mistake, he has faceroll potential but he requires specific teams to perform it against.

Karma is pretty alright. She walks around, throws massive shields, decent damage, a speed buff and occasional mediocre heal. I find she isn't quite as strong as Janna due to Janna having massive CC with an otherwise similar kit but I definitely think Karma is quite strong. She's obviously at his best against sustained damage teams who need to deal with her shield every 6 seconds all the while taking the shield and Heavenly Wave damage. Bursty people are a bit more problematic tho obviously if she can survive the bursts her passive AP boost makes her a real pain to deal with.

LeBlanc absolutely tears early game and falls off a bit once enemies build MR. I find her a bad Kassadin; higher cooldowns across the boards and a harder to apply slow. She's still solid, to be sure, but against tanky people she really lacks the machine gun potential; once she blows her cooldowns, it'll be a while 'til she can do anything else.

Malphite is a specific counterpick to AD heavy teams. His W makes him nearly impregnable for them and his AD scaling is quite good thanks to it too. He also has ASpd reduction and speed leech and everybody knows what his ultimate does. His kit is poorly suited to fight magic damage though and he takes a while to truly kick his damage into high gear. His ult CD is too long to rely on it so he mostly has to make do with his brawling. He's really just the opposite of Galio; while Galio loves mages and doesn't care too much for physical damage, Malphite loves physical damage and kinda loathes mages. Oh, and in spite of his Q, as long as he lacks his ult he's pretty darn kitable, which is extremely annoying for him.

Malzahar is a weird case and I'm not sure if he should be tier 2 or tier 3. He pushes like a boss (Malefic Visions autopush), has insane harass at range and has Silence. But his thing is the ultimate. Obviously, when he lands pool+ulti, someone is gonna die. Unless that someone has Quicksilver Sash. Now, as he's usually bottom it's not much effort for his opposing laner to build QSS (great item anyways; removes Exhausts, Ignites and all CC) and he suddenly can't really use his ultimate as unlike most CC ults, it doesn't do damage upfront but overtime (like suppression ults) so not only does QSS negate the Suppression, it also negates the damage (and any damage he was hoping to accomplish by having his enemy sit in the pool). He's still a great pusher (he definitely belongs bottom) and a fine defender but I feel QSS being a mere 1440 really hurts his ability to wreck people. And he's kinda vulnerable to assassins like most bottom champions.

Miss Fortune, what's there to say? She's a fine ranged DPS with inherent mobility and a long range ult...but nothing others don't offer over her. Her biggest selling point is her healing debuff but on a shell with little CC (Make It Rain's slow is all she's got) and no escapes (Void Ooze + run is far, far more efficient than Make It Rain + run) she's only decent. The fact that Strut breaks so easily is really her Achilles Heel. Her ult is pretty good for defending points from afar, admittedly, and she does have some AD boosts and healing debuff for some of the more popular champs and an auto attack reset so she isn't bad. She simply can't really deal with people jumping on her.

Morgana is a fine bottom. Her ult is definitely less impressive here than on SR due to the relative lack of such mass battles but it still does its job. She still pushes fine, heals off the pushes and has E + Q for anyone trying to jump on her. Obviously, she's at her best against AP-heavy teams and at her worst against teams light on AP that don't really rely on CC. Not much to say here; she can do some work, but I feel there are better bottom options available against most picks but she has her role.

Mundo starts off slow. In the early game he's basically a Cleaver bot. Nothing wrong with high percentile damage + slow on low cooldown of course, but you'd kinda want more out of him. But once he gets his stacked Mog's he becomes pretty scary. CC reduction + AD multiplier + immense regeneration (even on this map) = very hard to kill, very tanky DPS that throws percentile damage Cleavers at you. Obviously, any additional healing reduction would be his bane. QSS is almost a must IMHO. I wish you could QSS the map aura.

Olaf is basically an anti-tanky DPS. He gets tons of ArPen inherently, has his passive into attack speed, Q for slowing escaping opponents and dealing repeatable damage and E to take down even the hardiest of targets. And W to get some of his HP into damage; I like Atmog's on him for this very reason. Obviously, again, he's melee without a gap closer so he has real trouble with kiting and he starts off a bit slow before he gets tanky enough to get in there.

Orianna feels a bit dependent on her ultimate. She has a great kit (which is obviously why she's been nerfed like a billion times) but she just doesn't do that much damage or shielding with all the nerfs. Her ult is her only hard CC and she's kinda not that well suited to bot with her poor range on Q so when she doesn't have her ult she's only "Ok". She's still a speedboost/slow bot with a shield + MR/Armor buff and decent damage on both auto attacks and her Q so I can't say she's bad but it just feels like she needs her ult to truly wreck teams. Even max level, the cooldown is 90 seconds so the best she can do with CDR is ~50.

Pantheon is a pain for auto attackers to deal with. He also has a near-global ultimate on this map for breaking caps. And he actually does quite a bit of damage. But he's kinda squishy and melee, OR he doesn't do very much damage. It's one or the other with him, depending on if you build pure damage assassin or tanky DPS. I feel he's kinda just a weaker version of Nocturne, though his stun is immediate while Nocturne's fear takes a bit of time. Noc just does more damage and is easier to build tanky without hurting his damage overtly much thanks to his free stats from everything. Pantheon is obviously tanky against things he can block but abilities tear him apart.

Renekton starts off real strong and then kinda falls off. I mean, yeah, he gets tanky but his damage scaling just isn't all that high up there. His early game damage is insane, lategame damage? Meh. He has his dash to approach people with but it's not all that high range unless you have enemy minions to proc the second dash. He's less of "bad against X type of team" and more of "weaker at certain phase of the game".

Riven is alright. On all accounts, she's fine. She does decent damage, has a short stun, has decent approach abilities, scales decently, and is decently hard to kill. But that's about it. I feel there are simply other champs that have similar enough kits but perform better; Irelia for instance.

Sion should go AP. I'll say it right now; AD Sion is a gimmick that's really, really strong against people who seek to melee him (unless they're named Jax or Udyr or Xin Zhao I guess) but really, really bad against anyone else. He has no approach abilities (best being his stun, when he spends basically the whole stun just walking up to the enemy), his ultimate is only up about 1/4th of the time, and he's really squishy if he builds AD since this map doesn't lend itself well to farming 400 minions for health. AP Sion, on the other hand, is pretty strong. His QW hits really hard and then he can follow up with the Lichbane hit that counts. And when enemies try to focus him down, his shield is already up, ready to absorb 900 damage before exploding in their face again. That said, he does less damage than most mages and has a short range. Teams who can pop his shield before he gets in range for the detonate are real bad for him, and he's kinda vulnerable to CC (tho far, far less so than the AD version simply because the shield has a great AP scaling and will absorb a lot of punishment).

Sivir is a bot only champ. All she does is push. But boy does she do it well. I do prefer more versatile bottoms but a fully itemized Sivir can wreck face, to be sure. As everyone knows, she probably has the highest composite damage of anyone due to Ricochet so once she gets built, she can go wreck some face. Her poor range does plague her against other ADs and long range mages tho which is the primary reason she's here; while she still has no trouble farming with just Boomerang Blade, I feel other options do offer more than she does in terms of bot. Her Spell Shield has quite the cooldown; it only helps so much (tho her passive definitely helps against ADs but not their longrange abilities). She can wreck games; I just feel others can do it better.

Swain is a solid bot. I'd compare him to Malzahar; he's got good range and he's rather tanky. His biggest problem is that his ult is still mana intensive and he has a hard time clearing waves as efficiently as many other options and while he has survivability on his ult, he doesn't make good use of WotA so it kinda evens out. I'd never say he's bad but I'd have a hard time suggesting you pick him over e.g. Brand or Cassiopeia.

Teemo is a great map control champion. Like I said earlier, controlling the jungle really increases your team's options and reduces the enemy's and he controls the jungle. He also does do decent damage and is very good at 1v1ing AD types with his blind. I feel Shaco is largely better because Shaco is less specific about his CC and who he fights, not to mention more mobile but Teemo is not to be underestimated. The standard AD On Hit Proc build is pretty scary.

Tristana is a...decent AD carry but she has nothing special going on for her. While she's quite the supercarry lategame, early game her low range and need to get up-close and personal with her abilities makes her quite in the harm's way and she lacks the burst of Corki (though she has the auto cooldown reset on her Rocket Jump if she kills someone, and her ult is a knockback to make up for it). I don't think she's as good as Cait/Kog/Vayne/Ez though I definitely think she's perfectly viable too.

Trundle wrecks people who stack defenses. That's his job. You can pick him against silly tanky DPS teams and troll people with your pillars (you are a troll after all). His slow lasts 7 secs which is a ton and he can be really disruptive with movement on the map. His damage isn't amazing but it's decent and while he isn't all that tanky inherently, he can steal stats to make up for it. All in all, he's pretty good but more of a specific counterpick than anything.

Twisted Fate obviously offers his ultimate as the biggest thing he has going on for him. He's real bad against people who can jump on him and survive his goldcard + wildcard (I feel AP is definitely stronger than AD on this map due to wildcard range) and feels kind of like Nidalee except without Cougar-form for quick escapes. Being able to reveal all stealthed opponents and jump anywhere on the map is strong but the cooldown is kinda long. He can shine with a good team but he definitely needs that good team to do it, and again, he has problems 1v1ing many types of champions so he's always a conditional pick.

Twitch is pretty much Evelynn. Sure, he's ranged instead of healing off kills but really, he plays out much the same; avoid points, look for people to kill, kill them. He doesn't defend well nor attack well but he kills people well. His only problem is that he's squishy as **** so if anybody happens to actually find him, he's probably dead. Stealth detection is his worst enemy, as are people he can't one-shot combo as his stealth is his only real escape. Other than that he just prays. While the Phantom Dancer build is fast, at that point he doesn't actually deal any damage (other than the passive true damage, which isn't really killing anybody) to anyone with Armor so it's kinda waste of time.

Urgot is a long range monster; kills people on lane real efficiently and pokes with the best of them while being tanky and slowing people and having the ultimate for peels. Obviously his scaling isn't the best but having the percentile ArPen in addition to his great siege capabilities makes him quite alright, though I wouldn't pick him over champs with actual escape abilities on this map.

Vladimir is a fine WotA user which is already worth something. He defends points pretty well thanks to trollpool and sustains himself with QE+spellvamp. He also gets a tad tanky as the game goes on with his passive but his laning isn't amazing and his range is kinda short which really puts him in harm's way on top. I feel he's alright mostly due to the pool and his WotA prowess but there are better options for the same job in the game.

Wukong is like Riven. Solid damage, solid gap closer, a CC ability, a good defensive ability, decent all-around. Again, I feel there are better options available, though admittedly Decoy is fun.

Xin Zhao wrecks melee and loses to anyone he can't pin down. Very few champs can go 1v1 with him and he has Audacious Charge to approach but after that his tank is empty and he needs those attacks to reduce his cooldowns. If he can't get those, he's kinda pointless.

Tier 4
Amumu has a decent kit all things considered. Obviously you wanna build him tanky AP here. His real problem are obviously his cooldowns. Bandage Toss is a long while and his ultimate is a veritable lifetime. He feels much like Galio except since his kit forces him to close in to melee range I feel he's just far worse at attacking; and he lacks the ability that makes him tanky forcing him to itemize more heavily in that regard. He can do work and win games but I don't think his jungling prowess is really of much use on this map.

Annie has superb burst but unfortunately big part of it is Tibbers. 120 seconds is just a forever on this map. Other than that, she does decent damage and is decently tanky, has a decent stun and is all in all decent but lacks the burst to truly make her shine over other options with similar burst and much more sustained damage. Again, she can win games but I don't think she's the optimal pick.

Ashe has her global ult and Hawkshot. That's about all. She is a decent AD with built-in slow (so no need for Phage!) but she's slow as balls, has no escape and doesn't even scale that hard (compared to Kog/Ez/Vayne all with massive inherent steroids for ASpd, damage or both). She isn't bad but I feel she's worse than the other ADs since she can't lane that well against most botlaners on the map and thus has trouble farming anywhere and she really needs her IE + PD to do much.

Fiddlesticks is...well, he has annoying amounts of CC and his ultimate is superscary but his ult CD is still prohibitive and he's earned his nickname "Brittlesticks". If his Drain is interrupted for whatever reason, he dies in seconds. His ult is pretty **** easy to see coming; he's at his best when ulting from the brush behind a point but even that's pretty easy to bait due to the 1.5 sec channel time. If he can get his ults off and enemy has trouble interrupting his drains he can shine. But that's more "ifs" than most other alternatives have. Oh, and that ult CD? It's in the same class as Amumu's and Galio's, for instance.

Leona is alright all things considered. Her ults scales to have a very reasonable CD, she has lots of inherent CC and she's quite tanky. She doesn't scale all that well though and that gold on her just doesn't do all that much; she can get tankier but that's about it. She doesn't have much in terms of AP ratios and she has nothing to make her AD scaling very good. In short, she's alright but I think you can do better.

Master Yi is...the same as ever. He can totally go postal and penta teams without CC and he goes down in seconds to teams with any. He isn't especially good at diving turrets, he takes to lategame to truly kick off and he's still squishy (when not meditating/when CCd out of it) unless he sacrifices his damage to a degree that merely makes him a Xin/Udyr/whatever without CC so meh.

Mordekaiser, well, everybody knows his story. There are less creeps on this map so he's hurt even more. Mind, he can still make for a scary Spellvamp build but there are only few bots that don't wreck him and he has a hard time doing much early on anywhere else. Gunblade nerf obviously hurt him even more. There are just better tanky mages for the map tho (Yorick does the 5v4s happen much more reliably, too).

Nasus is alright all things considered. If you go bot you can farm the Q a bit tho obviously, he's mostly about his other abilities, especially Wither which shines against AD types with its AD reduction. That and his ultimate make him pretty scary still but as long as the 1000 damage Qs are out of the game, I feel you can do better with most other Tanky DPS types.

Nunu isn't terrible, but he doesn't do all that much damage unless he can land his ult (hard enough on this map) and while he does have a speedbuff and the snowball, he has little else. E.g. Kayle has a similar kit except with invulnerability on her ult and high damage + resistance penetration on her auto attacks. Consume just isn't all that strong (though you can eat Heimer's towers which'll make him a sad panda, to be sure) and the rest of his kit doesn't really add up to all that much; he's mediocre AP and mediocre AD.

Shen is decent. For crying out loud, stop building him AP tho; his offensive output is terrible when AP and he runs out of energy superfast unless you refuse to use Shadow Dash; sure, his ult is a great shield and it also has at minimum a 2 min cooldown. Some incidental AP (e.g. Abyssal which compares rather favorably to FoN & decently to Odyn's) is fine, but going the whole way with Rylai's and Caps is just stupid. Just build Atmog's on him. He starts slow but becomes a rather scary 1v1 machine when you finish it (his passive isn't actually completely inconsequential and the healing from Q does help and he obviously still has Shadow Dash to help his allies). Also, being that tanky makes him real good at defending points and thanks to his ult, he can quite easily defend two (tho unfortunately, the ult cooldown is stupid high and makes me wanna itemize CDR even tho that's literally the only thing that benefits of it at all). You can totally run Revive on him for the lulz/awesome tho. He even scales by HP!

Skarner is a pokemon. Dunno much about him post-buff to be honest; he still doesn't seem that impressive and I'd rather have e.g. Warwick on my team but his ult is a decent peeling move and he's decently tanky. His damage is...decent. Yeah. That's about it. Maybe he should be higher now? I dunno; this is his pre-buff placement. Just for crying out loud, don't build him AP please.

Taric is pretty good when built Tanky AD (or hell, AP). He gives the team some nice auras, is tankyish and helps the team but it just feels like e.g. Sona is way, way more useful, I feel; easier to deliver the attacks and more damage and less reliant on the ult while also packing a move speed aura in addition to similar stuff to what Taric provides.

Tryndamere is the same as always; wrecks people who let him hit them, cries in a corner with slows and stuns and blinds and all that stupid stuff. He needs to hit people for fury, he needs fury to do stuff, and he really hurts when he hits people but overall he just isn't very good at getting to hit people. Oh, and that early game damage? Yeah, it leaves something to be desired. Master Yi that's vulnerable to slows and has a less reliable approach ability, pretty much (sure, he's invulnerable for 5 secs; who cares?).

Veigar is decent as an anti-mage but I feel he just plain doesn't offer enough over other bots to play him. His game is obviously farming creeps and that's hard on this map. While he can certainly land good stuns with Event Horizon and dish out some decent pain and his ult cooldown is somewhat reasonable on max rank, I just feel he doesn't do enough compared to alternatives vast majority of the time.

And just to clarify, I'm not saying Tier 4s are bad or can't win games or whatever; just that they're worse than alternatives vast majority of the time and while you can win games with them, they probably don't give you the best chances of winning vast majority of the time unless you're a master with one of them and not very good with anything else. I play Shen myself. I win with him quite a bit (you can get that 5 win streak with any of the Tier 4s I listed, I'm sure) and I think he's definitely underrated but I still don't feel he's the optimal pick when I wanna win regardless.

And do I expect anyone to read this all? Someone might. Maybe not. But it helped me clear my own opinions and experiences on all the champs so I wrote it out anyways. No skin off my back if someone finds it useful, interesting or even engaging or thought provoking, well, it's pure plus. Obviously I'm open for any criticism people may have though I needn't say "X is good" or "X is bad" is hardly enough a basis for actual discussion.

Hobocop 10-25-2011 05:11 AM

Cho'gath actually has a lot more solid bot matchups than you'd think. On this map, you can max Rupture and spam it all day on the minions to farm them. It's virtually impossible to zone him out if he does that, since those with the range to do it risk overextending themselves and taking lots of damage from minions, and those that don't can't really reach him anyway. Rupture is stronger for pushing anyway, with a shorter cooldown, better AP ratio and more base damage than Scream. Open Catalyst, back quickly to grab Boots, and you're good to go. Good luck forcing him out even if you control the middle health relic, especially once he finishes RoA.

He also has one of the deadliest follow-ups to a 'reliable' CC out of any other champ. Teammate with a targeted stun/root roams bottom, lands it, and Cho hits Rupture+Scream+Feast combo 100% of the time for big damage, likely resulting in one very dead opposing bottom.

Kadder1y 10-25-2011 05:14 AM

Kudos for taking the time to create the list and have explanations, but I have to disagree with you not putting Akali at top. You even point out all the things you need to do to stop Akali, but fail to realize that is A LOT of things to do to counter one champion.

Psi21 10-25-2011 05:16 AM

As of August of this year, Elealar's account was level 22.


Sorry but from reading over a lot of your views I see your lack of experience is showing.

Elealar 10-25-2011 05:25 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by H0B0C0P (Hozzászólás 16345123)
Cho'gath actually has a lot more solid bot matchups than you'd think. On this map, you can max Rupture and spam it all day on the minions to farm them. It's virtually impossible to zone him out if he does that, since those with the range to do it risk overextending themselves and taking lots of damage from minions, and those that don't can't really reach him anyway. Open Catalyst, back quickly to grab Boots, and you're good to go. Good luck forcing him out even if you control the middle health relic, especially once he finishes RoA.

He also has one of the deadliest follow-ups to a 'reliable' CC out of any other champ. Teammate with a targeted stun/root roams bottom, lands it, and Cho hits Rupture+Scream+Feast combo 100% of the time for big damage, likely resulting in one very dead opposing bottom.

*shrug* I always found him to have trouble against Cassiopeia/Brand/Anivia/people who benefit of the Dominion mana reg and have lots of range for relatively easy to land harass in general. I'll have to try him more, I guess.

Would you consider running him outside bot in order to combo his CC chain with other champs, tho? I always found him best when he has an easy access to minions to heal off of and for stacking his Feast relatively safely. Maybe run him in a comp with other bot-capable champs and putting him bot for the early game to Feast up and then trading around?


Originally Posted by Kadder1y (Hozzászólás 16345170)
Kudos for taking the time to create the list and have explanations, but I have to disagree with you not putting Akali at top. You even point out all the things you need to do to stop Akali, but fail to realize that is A LOT of things to do to counter one champion.

I found her borderline between tier 1 and 2; the reason I put her in 2 is that in some match-ups she just doesn't shine. Like the enemy team is...say Lee Sin/Blitzcrank/Kassadin/Maokai/Udyr (really, any tank DPS/other assassins); who's Akali realistically going to be able to focus down? And yeah, shutting her down takes a lot of resources but she's one of those champs that's really bipolar; she's very capable of going on a killing spree and destroying your whole team but if she's shut down, she's shut down hard. If she can't kill a target when she goes on someone, she'll also lack refresh on her Ult stacks and her damage plummets. So while it's a lot of resources invested against her, those resources can give you equivalent payoff. Maybe she does belong in 1; I don't know. It just feels like there are too many match-ups where she wouldn't be able to shine for me to place her there, while the other tier 1s have no match-ups I'd really consider them bad picks in.


Originally Posted by Psi21 (Hozzászólás 16345192)
As of August of this year, Elealar's account was level 22.


Sorry but from reading over a lot of your views I see your inexperience is showing.

My main account is on EUW. For reference from that whatever site you dug up. I'm Platinum ranked on season 1 solo queue and currently have 179 Dominion wins and 101 losses. I attached a screenshot of my profile page on EUW if you really don't believe me:

The only reason I rather used this forum is 'cause the EUW forums are quite frankly dead, while here you can actually find engaging and insightful discussion (in lieu of all the nonsense).

Hobocop 10-25-2011 05:31 AM

Cho can be played outside bot, but I've honestly not yet run in a team comp where I would feel comfortable doing so unless it involves Blitzcrank. He's pretty flexible with his item builds, though, able to make good use out of virtually everything except pure AD, so maybe a change-up there would be needed.

With Taric v. Sona, I think Taric is just as good in his own way. He has a non-ultimate stun for one, and the amount of armor reduction he can stack with a Black Cleaver + Stark's is pretty hilarious. Makes your AD super scary.

ooo Sick Boy ooo 10-25-2011 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by Psi21 (Hozzászólás 16345192)
As of August of this year, Elealar's account was level 22.


Sorry but from reading over a lot of your views I see your lack of experience is showing.

last updated over 2 months ago, but I do disagree with your tiers OP

Team 1
GP, Blitz, Cass, Zilean, Ez

Team 2
Akali, Shaco, Karthus, Jax, Kog

Equal skilled players, Team 2 wins 90% of the time

IronManZ 10-25-2011 05:47 AM

How can someone spend so much of their life writing so much sh*t? Man, I feel kinda bad for you..

Elealar 10-25-2011 05:56 AM


Originally Posted by H0B0C0P (Hozzászólás 16345455)
Cho can be played outside bot, but I've honestly not yet run in a team comp where I would feel comfortable doing so unless it involves Blitzcrank. He's pretty flexible with his item builds, though, able to make good use out of virtually everything except pure AD, so maybe a change-up there would be needed.

Hum. So I suppose Cho'Gath should be Tier 2 in your opinion?


Originally Posted by H0B0C0P (Hozzászólás 16345455)
With Taric v. Sona, I think Taric is just as good in his own way. He has a non-ultimate stun for one, and the amount of armor reduction he can stack with a Black Cleaver + Stark's is pretty hilarious. Makes your AD super scary.

I always found it his biggest problem being that he needs to actually get to melee to truly bring that AD to bear while Sona has the range to do it pretty easily against a wide variety of targets. AD Taric I find has much the same problem as AD Sion; no gap closer, no speed buff, nothing but the stun to actually get his damage in. Tho I guess he's less squishy.

Tho the stun is pretty big; he probably belongs in 3. I had him there initially but I dropped him when I began thinking what kinds of teams I'd want him against and came to the conclusion that he mostly shines against heavily AD teams while you have multiple AD types yourself to utilize Shatter's active and the ultimate.


Originally Posted by ooo Sick Boy ooo (Hozzászólás 16345508)
Team 1
GP, Blitz, Cass, Zilean, Ez

Team 2
Akali, Shaco, Karthus, Jax, Kog

Equal skilled players, Team 2 wins 90% of the time

Hum. Akali does counter Ezreal, that's true, but I'm not sure this match-up is so clearcut. Cassiopeia should be able to give Karthus lots of trouble on bot, maybe even force him out of his tower though that match-up obviously comes down to the player skill most of them all (but once Cass gets her ultimate, she should be able to kill Kart with Flash > Ult as Kart ult lacks 1v1 utility, at least early on until Kart itemizes against it; of course, if he can predict the Flash coming, he can just turn around and be fine, I suppose).

On top, you'd have team 2 with serious trouble actually attacking; none of those champions are what I'd consider siege champs except Kog'maw. Shaco can try to force the opposition to move by attacking enemy mid or bot but far as actually forcing defenders out of the points, team 2 has to rely on Kog'maw to smoke them out with Living Artillery/W with ult support from Kart while the defenders have Blitz grabs, Zile bombs & ult and Ezreal's whole kit to make life extremely hard for any attackers, as well as to efficiently invade points.

Jax stands out as relatively useless in this match-up; who's he gonna jump on? Ezreal just Mystic Shots him and Arcane Shifts away after Leap; Zile slows and bombs him while Blitz Power Fist can't be dodged and his ult does a number on Jax. Guess he'll jump on Pirate but really, Pirate should be faster especially after Parley so at best he can chase Pirate away in 1v1.

Shaco would do his thing but I definitely think Team 1 would need to win the initial fight for Windmill to truly stand a chance; and Akali doesn't pick up before level 6, Shaco needs to be able to setup the field of battle to truly shine, Jax doesn't really pick up before 6 and Kog needs some ASpd to truly wreck face while Ezreal with just Brutalizer is very scary, Blitz has his base CC setup from the start, Zile hurts like hell from the start (tho he'll lack anything beyond his double Bombs early) & GP's kit is fine in the start not to mention Zile passive giving momentary level advantages to Team 2 so I feel the early fights would favor Team 2 heavily. Team 2 would IMHO have an edge if they stick relatively together and maintain decent team cohesion; team 2 amplifies in power when the top champs are together while team 1 is basically 3 assassins with little synergy with each other, and Kog'Maw who lacks protective CC from the rest of the team. Zile's resurrection on Pirate or Blitz, Pirate's E, Zile's speed boost/slow, Ez's attack speed buff; I think the team synergies would really give Team 2 many thousands gold worth of stats here given a somewhat reasonable team skill level.


Originally Posted by IronManZ (Hozzászólás 16345685)
How can someone spend so much of their life writing so much sh*t? Man, I feel kinda bad for you..

Do you have any constructive criticism?

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:54 PM.

(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc