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-   -   Madred's/Wriggles removed for being usless on Dom, possibly too good for TT? (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1331916)

SoBeNirvana 10-07-2011 09:13 AM

Madred's/Wriggles removed for being usless on Dom, possibly too good for TT?
This is something I've been thinking about for a while.

Madred's Razor and Wriggle's Lantern were removed from Dominion because the proc-hit would have been mostly useless and wards were being removed overall.

Which makes me wonder if a problem on TT is that Madred's Razor and Wriggle's Lantern might be TOO good, especially for control of the dragon and lizard buffs. With the emphasis on jungling, I can't help but wonder if these items are skewering the map by being too necessary for success on it.

Does anyone have a solid argument for one way or the other?

darkjak 10-07-2011 09:34 AM

I am not at that level where no people buy any wards yet sadly. But some caught on to the fact that wriggles gives them a free ward every duration and is kind of boosting amateur players win rate quite a bit. When I play Master yi on my way up to leve 30 it was freakingly good item to ensure nobody got ganked bottom lane while I was top. And I have a picture of myself as master yi with greaves and wriggles at the end of a game with an excess of 5000+ gold because I never had to recall =P

Frosty716 10-07-2011 12:01 PM

with the recent changes they made to the item, and the fact that very strong champs would take advantage of the on-hit effect (Udyr, Olaf, can't remember but I think one more), I would say it's more balanced than it was, but i always know it's almost instalose when i see 3 wriggles even today, unless you have a good backdoor, and two solid defenders, and probably fortify too.

BRAVEYpl0x 10-07-2011 12:24 PM

I have been thinking about this, and I do think that the TT jungle is so easily accessible that a jungler with Wriggle's can start eating thru the entire top jungle, including dragon, too quickly at to low a level.

That being said, the idea of TT is to be fast-paced; if jungling takes too long (if the jungle were buffed, or Wriggle's removed) then all we are doing is removing an interesting dynamic i.e. should I push, gank or jungle now?

A small dragon buff or perhaps a wriggle's substitute would prolly help pull jungling in line with the other two options, instead of being (imo) too often the best option.

Saiyushu 10-07-2011 12:47 PM

Wriggles is pretty close to required. Though smite is more important

Captain Kopp 10-07-2011 12:54 PM

Quite frankly, I simply can't imagine TT without madred's at the very least. For me, it allows me to get dragons no later than 6 minutes, and having that ability forces both teams to maintain a strong presence top. This added confrontation causes more fights thus sustaining the fast paced high risk reward play that I love about twisted treeline.

Dominion doesn't have wriggles because removing it doesn't hurt anyone, but the value of being able to quickly push waves would just be too overpowered. Removing madred's would slow the pace of twisted treeline, which imo is a bad thing.

SoBeNirvana 10-07-2011 01:05 PM

I think one of the main issues with Wriggles is that the lantern active gives you map control disproportionate to the benefit of the item on SR.

Captain Kopp 10-07-2011 01:17 PM

In that regard, it would be fair to say that wriggles gives you approximately 75g every 3 minutes. So looking at it in that light, its not hard to get that extra 5 cs or w/e in that time and just buy a ward. Granted, you have to have an open item slot, but if you do you can buy multiple wards

Corben158 10-07-2011 01:32 PM

It way way too good in TT. A free ward and TONS of time saved with the dmg proc on jungle mobs.

It makes jungle control very easy with a ward and killing mobs fast.
Just the time saved with the dmg proc is worth it, even if they took the ward away.

Throw this in enemy neutral buff bushes and you have clear view of who going in and out of top jungle.

infinite azure 10-07-2011 01:34 PM

Hmm, I'd like to think that it's potential power from its active is negated due to the prevalence of pink wards at the two major ward spots, it allows you an extra ward at a non-key location, but I've seen plenty of wriggles wards give 25g to the other team cause they were placed near a pink.

I could see the proc being too strong, but I think the bigger issue is dragon's health not scaling enough that it takes too little time to do.

In fact 3 or more madreds might give you too much baron power on SR too, but no one has really tried.

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