League of Legends Community
123

League of Legends Community (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/index.php)
-   Summoner's Rift (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=48)
-   -   The days of double jungle are coming! (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1330388)

Zirun 10-06-2011 08:26 PM

The days of double jungle are coming!
 
And finally our favourite little rat will be played again!

With sustain nerfed, it is no longer necessary to have a healer supporting bottom lane. As CLG has shown several times in tournaments recently, it's not even necessary to have two people versus the support and ranged AD that commonly takes bottom lane. Since top lane is generally occupied by melee champions (Singed, Garen, Cho'Gath, Galio, Gangplank, Irelia, etc.), that allows a ranged AD or caster with survivability and sustainability (like Morgana) to reasonably solo top against a wide variety of opponents.

That means it is entirely feasible to run only a single person in each lane, barring certain enemy champions which can be banned and picked against (Vayne + Taric bottom, for instance). By moving the extra person into the jungle, I believe the next evolution in gameplay will see an aggressive change to gameplay, and that it is coming soon.

Where does the rat come in? Simple. He has quite good early game damage, and that all-important stealth. You thought Lee Sin was scary at level 2 when you're level 1? How about that Twitch with red buff, Debilitating Poison, and damage just as good as Lee Sin's that you literally cannot see coming. Any lane, any time. No skillshots needed. Burn flash or die, guaranteed.

Not to mention with two junglers, you can take an early dragon, early Baron, counterjungle like mad, or simply gank lanes into oblivion. You force every single lane to get pink wards or die, putting them even further behind. It's quite literally old Eve, but worse.

If the game happens to go a long time, Twitch can viably build somewhat tanky while doing a lot of damage, similar to Gangplank. Because Spray and Pray has the potential to multiply his damage by 5, he doesn't need to build full DPS in order to contribute significantly to teamfights.

So long as all your lanes can handle soloing (bottom being able to solo would be the key, and if you're going to try this I'd recommend banning or picking aggressive or high-range supports and/or DPS like Vayne, Taric, and Caitlyn) and you have good coordination, I see no reason why a team of Twitch/Jungler/3 solos wouldn't be able to beat what is currently standard.

If you happen to be unable to play Twitch for whatever reason, the best substitute would be Evelynn, thanks to her long-duration stealth, though she wouldn't be as effective as Twitch and would fall off quite heavily lategame, leaving you vulnerable to a team that can play cautiously and turtle until Eve becomes basically worthless.

Wolfalisk 10-06-2011 09:01 PM

I see a potential issue with double jungle. One of the main things that justifies delegating a champion to jungling is that that can level on par with a duo lane while giving a would-be duo lane solo xp, which benefits the overall level of the team.

What would happen is that, while the 3 solo lanes get solo xp, the two junglers are going to be insanely under-leveled (due to having to share jungle), and I'd imagine there's a chance the 3 solo xp lanes won't be able to make up for the level deficit of not one, but 2 champions. A level deficit that would probably be even greater if one of the junglers is a roaming/jungling hybrid like you suggested with Twitch. This also means ganks won't work. You probably can't gank someone 2-5 levels above you that early in the game.

I just don't see it working at all with the exception of an extremely well coordinated team. Trying this in Normal or solo queue I'm sure would be an instant loss for the double jungle team.

Tsuchimikado 10-06-2011 09:05 PM

Doubled Jungled before with my friend that was fiddle and i was nunu(dps) and it worked out well then i thought since we usually just ganked one lane which was both carries so its a chance you can win

Zirun 10-06-2011 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZergSwarms (Hozzászólás 15505074)
I see a potential issue with double jungle. One of the main things that justifies delegating a champion to jungling is that that can level on par with a duo lane while giving a would-be duo lane solo xp, which benefits the overall level of the team.

What would happen is that, while the 3 solo lanes get solo xp, the two junglers are going to be insanely under-leveled (due to having to share jungle), and I'd imagine there's a chance the 3 solo xp lanes won't be able to make up for the level deficit of not one, but 2 champions. A level deficit that would probably be even greater if one of the junglers is a roaming/jungling hybrid like you suggested with Twitch. This also means ganks won't work. You probably can't gank someone 2-5 levels above you that early in the game.

I just don't see it working at all with the exception of an extremely well coordinated team. Trying this in Normal or solo queue I'm sure would be an instant loss for the double jungle team.

The thing is, Twitch + X jungler, both with smite, can do Lizard buff (given to Twitch) and parts or all of wraiths and double golems, giving the majority of the experience to Twitch (to assure he gets to level 2). From then on, Twitch is 100% free to gank or counterjungle. The other jungler can jungle as normal, and easily invade the other jungle (and possibly kill their jungler), with Twitch helping depending on the enemy jungler (Amumu can't do much early game all alone, for example, and so you wouldn't need Twitch to come with you against him unless you're trying to kill him).

This is the same point in the game that a Lee Sin would be able to gank after doing double golems. Except you have a stealther with higher damage, red buff, and range. It's even better than the amazing level 2 ganks Lee Sin has. You could literally camp a lane and zone them completely out of XP if you wanted to, especially if the minions are initially pushing to your side.

If the junglers start to get behind, they can cover lanes or even sit in them briefly to get gold or experience. Obviously people in solo queue might not like that, but they don't like a lot of things.

So you have some of the best ganking potential in the game (especially since nobody is going to pink ward at 2:00 into the game) with a Twitch who can go basically wherever he wants, you have another jungler free to do literally whatever he wants. Nocturne? Join in the ganks. Amumu? Farm the jungle. Warwick? Get 6 as fast as possible. What are the opponents going to do when there's the threat of a red buff Twitch around every corner?

That last point is probably the best part. Before Eve got nerfed into the ground, everybody feared getting ganked by her. It meant almost certain death to have her pop up and stun you. It's basically the same with Twitch early game, except bottom's a little harder to gank without both junglers (since it's 2v2 instead of 3v2) and you have much, much better jungler control (including the opponents' jungle).

There's a lot of things that have to go right (having good laners, the right people to lane against, some level of coordination, etc.), but I think it's a strategy that would be pretty **** hard to beat when it works.

Backyard Mime 10-06-2011 10:01 PM

Neutral camps don't respawn fast enough for double jungle to level effectively, unless you're stealing a lot of enemy jungle and/or soaking up xp from lanes.

Tubutas 10-06-2011 11:05 PM

I've seen this done in game. At first I was like wtf are they doing but every lane got ganked into oblivion. At 15:00 we had taken down their inhib and we almost won before they got to surrender.

CaliOGkush 10-07-2011 06:37 AM

I think you may be speaking of tri-laning. Its a thing in HoN and DotA that's been happening for ages

you get your carries in their lanes and have them solo, but one of the lanes has 2 stunners/healers. Both of them roam from lane to lane helping their guy get kills.

The solo time in lane gives you more xp and the times with partners that stun a target and focus him down get you kills.

Its overpowered and totally doable in LoL

TildeMerand 10-07-2011 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZergSwarms (Hozzászólás 15505074)
I see a potential issue with double jungle.
I just don't see it working at all with the exception of an extremely well coordinated team. Trying this in Normal or solo queue I'm sure would be an instant loss for the double jungle team.

Why would you even bring up Solo Queue? Double Jungle would REQUIRE a team of 5's. If the OP didn't explicitly say that, OP sure as hell implied it.

HidingOverHere 10-07-2011 07:00 AM

i wud say this only works if u pretend one [person is afk or else ur enemy will be ganking whoever is in the enemy jungle

Lein 10-07-2011 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TildeMerand
Why would you even bring up Solo Queue? Double Jungle would REQUIRE a team of 5's. If the OP didn't explicitly say that, OP sure as hell implied it.

Well if this actually catches on (doubtful, but you never know), its quite possible that double jungles could pop up randomly in solo queue. But yeah, a double jungle would require the coordination of a 5-man premade currently.

On the other hand - I went up against a double jungle of Nunu and Tyrn a while back... it was rather scary. Couldn't leave the lanes, couldn't push up, couldn't farm, couldn't take dragon.... they were both hella under-level'd, but it didn't matter cuz they each got like 3 kills within the first 10 minutes. Totally caught us by surprise when they ganked us.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:03 PM.
123


(c) 2008 Riot Games Inc