Thread / Thread Starter Developer Post Forum
The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 07:44 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
11 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TauNoob1 View Post
But it IS rude. The community keeps either asking for more SPECIFIC information, it doesn't have to be about the new lore, it can be about who made the decision and why you went with it, which the reds are most certainly not doing, or voicing their opinions that the new lore sucks in comparison to the old one, where reds are basically saying "deal with it we aren't going to keep the old lore and that's final". Honestly I don't see how you've been trying to help the community when almost every poster has firmly disagreed with your changes despite your arguments.
The "It's not rude!" was in response to another player saying "Sorry if this is rude." I wasn't talking about my own post.

I'm not going to name names because, at this point, it'd just be throwing them under the bus. It wouldn't solve any problems and it would not make anyone feel better. Then that person, or persons, would be put on the spot, they would be pressured to respond, and I don't want to make them do that if they don't feel comfortable. So, you get me. Or Entropy in the GD thread, or others on the Boards. Looking into any of these threads, of course someone would be wary to speak. It's frickin' brutal. I mean, it's the internet, so it's not surprising, but Rioters are human, too, and it sometimes feels like people forget that. Not trying to be sensitive - just laying it out that this isn't an ideal situation for us... But it's also one we've created.

We made the decision to decouple the Institute of War/Summoners from Runeterra because we don't want to force champions to live within that context. The game and Runeterra "IRL" won't be 1:1 copies of each other, but you can still be Summoners in the game League of Legends. They just don't rule champions in Runeterra IRL with this new direction. Champions have homes, relationships, motivations - the things you guys liked seeing in the JoJ - but they won't always be coming back to "and then they joined the League." We want to see Nami go on her quest to get the moon stone to save her people instead of spending her time with the Institute of War. We want to see Diana try to revitalize the Lunari and what that means for Leona's people. We want Amumu to try to make friends and discover his past by desperately travelling around the world... Finding a home within the Institute is almost too convenient for him, to be honest.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 07:21 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
10 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schamanee View Post
Now that's just in poor taste. Not only she comes here, swatting away our concerns and complaints with nonchalant attitude, now this? Why even bother.
You're right, it was! I was trying to make light of the situation (also it probably wasn't clear that I was talking about Amumu's description) but it wasn't well-received.

I'm not trying to swat away your concerns - I just don't know what to say to make you all feel better. I'm trying to be real with you guys. This is our direction. I don't have the tools or resources at my disposal to give you what you want. So all I can do is promise that we'll give you what you want in time, but even that makes me cringe to type out.

Like I said in the Boards thread, we've ****ed up with our lack of communication over the past two years or so.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 07:15 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
9 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine Tog View Post
This is a long-winded, corporate-ese way of saying "suck it up, we're doing it our way." Sorry if that sounds rude, but I'm trying to be direct.
It's not rude! I was trying to be direct, too.

What I was going for is, I feel helpless in engaging because I can't give you tons and tons of story-related content at this moment to make you guys happy about this decision. I feel like I can't add any value to this discussion anymore because we've explained our reasoning in various avenues, but we're still arguing about it, and any words I say aren't going to change your guys' minds. And, well, that's okay, I guess. It doesn't feel okay, but that's reality. So, I'm just sitting here with this horrible look on my face because I know there's nothing else I can do but talk to you guys, but that isn't good enough, either, for a lot of people.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 07:08 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
8 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1v1 me at turret View Post
Breathing life into a new champion for the League and not understanding everything there is about them before releasing them? I'd love to have a long talk about where the hell you are coming from, because you sure as hell are not a writer.
I understand where "my" champions have come from and what they're all about - but not every other facet of Runeterra.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 07:05 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
7 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canvasofgrey View Post
1. It makes the first trailer absolutely pointless and incorrect to the game now.
Yeah. It doesn't break the tone or appreciation of it, though. We're basically making a "new" canon, so it'd be great if people could still like that trailer for what it is and not be upset that it doesn't match the game 1:1. But people found the Summoners cool, and it was cool that they were featured in our first trailer! So I get why people are disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canvasofgrey View Post
2. Champions that speak to summoners are now... strange... Everytime Nidalee says "You cannot tame me, Summoner." It's kind of weird since Summoners now are basically formless entities of higher power rather than sentient beings of higher power. Summoner is now diluted into a very shapeless form, and characters like Sona "Only you can hear me, Summoner." are pretty much crazy.
Yeah... This is something we'll need to "correct" over time. There's quite a bit of that. You can still be a Summoner in the game, but it's a concept that doesn't live IRL in Runeterra. So we're not in a gigantic rush to do a VO redo for all those champions (also holy moly that'd take a ton of time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canvasofgrey View Post
3. It turns battles into meaningless get-togethers. Before, Kayle and Morgana wouldn't dare be on the same side. Neither would Renekton and Nasus, however with the concept of summoners, it puts a leash on their otherwise rampant personalities, and forces them to work together. Now the way it's set up, it makes no sense for rivals or enemies to be on the same team.
I kind of struggle with an answer for this. Part of me wants to say, "imagine situations where they'd HAVE to fight together" or "can you imagine WHY they'd be fighting together? What a story!" but that doesn't work for everyone. I sometimes do a little RP in my head when Lucian and Thresh are laning together - like, what could have driven them to fight together when it's Lucian's goal to destroy Thresh and all he stands for? Is it a temporary deal where Thresh promised to release Senna? Or is it something so grave that Lucian has agreed to give up his soul to Thresh so he can be with Senna again?

Anyways. Another part of me wants to say "it's okay for them to be in this situation because it's a game and we want you to be the fantasy they idealize." But there isn't one blanket answer that will satisfy everyone. Like I said above, you can still be a Summoner when playing League - it just isn't a concept that exists IRL anymore.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 06:50 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
6 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHippoman View Post
But I think the best way to mend the rift between Riot and the Lore community (Which, let's face it, has increased since the Dev Blog, although that was probably the opposite intention), is to answer some questions.

I think the biggest one, the one that people here have been discussing since Kitae first rewrote Katarina's Lore, is:

Why are we severing so many connections? First it was Kat's connection to Marcus in her lore. Then Warwick and Singed, Soraka and Karma, the list goes on, until now, the whole connection between the Institute, the League, and the events of the game world are being severed.

What's the purpose of this? How is this helping tell a better story? It's been mentioned that this wasn't an easy decision to make, but the pros outweighed the cons. What are some of those pros? Because, I'll be honest, as someone who's been into the Lore since Season 1, all I see is the story I followed for years being dissolved because behind closed doors, it was deemed "Better".

I don't mean to come off as condescending or angry, and I think a lot of people have the same question. So if you could give any answer, it would go a long way, at least with me.
Thanks, Mr. Hippoman. Honestly, I think the lore rewrites were just mishandled. We started off with Kitae, who had a vision in her mind, but then we went through other leadership changes and department shifts and realignment over the past two years that that original vision wasn't seen all the way through. We have a lot of those bios "fixed" and any that mention the Institute have been slightly modified so champions can keep their original story - although I'm not sure what the plan is to role them out. Currently, piecemeal with events or relevant releases (relaunches). Maybe it'd be better to just replace EVERYTHING, but the first thing we had to do was make it clear just what the **** we were doing in the first place.

So, the Dev Blog did that - set it straight, I mean - and now we can start tying these champions back into Runeterra. I don't expect people to think it's "better" until they start seeing the results.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 06:45 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
5 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMTOOJUICY View Post
Just give us something that shows progression in a story line. Any story line. A winner of the Freljord event. Katarina's dad finally unveils himself. A leaked cell phone pic of Ezreal getting to second base with Lux. We lore fans are a vociferous lot, yet I suspect most of us are easily appeased. ANYTHING.
This is something I'm interested in seeing through. It feels unsatisfying to me, too, to not have endings to a butt-ton of these things.

A problem we have is - where do we start? What is the best way to deliver these stories to you? To everyone else who isn't concerned with lore, too? A short? A novel? Comics? I think we've eliminated the idea of doing text on a website, to be honest. Passionate readers would still love it, but it wouldn't reach the majority of people who could be interested. So all those other things take a lot of time and resources. And when you throw in the factor that we'd start making decisions that would affect all of Runeterra permanently - it's just something we aren't used to.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 06:38 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
4 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sternbery View Post
"Why did X champion join the League?"
Because they friggin' wanted to that's why! There is something to be said for leaving things to audience interpretation. Maybe the reason can be explored in future lore releases. Maybe there isn't a single good reason that a champion joined. Maybe they had a small problem and said, "You know who could help me with this? The Institute of war!" They show up, perform some job, get paid, and leave. Only to return when they have want something else from the Institute. You act like these champions have to be permanently tied to the Institute when that isn't at all the case.
The only problem I have with this argument is that players were not satisfied with "because they wanted to." I'm happy that some people are okay with things being left to interpretation (honestly, you could parse why Vel'Koz or Braum or anyone wanted to join the League), but deliberately avoiding it felt bad. We just didn't feel the Institute was a strong or ideal story point.

Those kinds of stories you described above can be told more easily; it won't be with the Institute of War, but it can be with Yasuo joining a mercenary army in exchange for help with a personal problem of his, maybe more than once, and then finds himself in trouble over it later. We can create more compelling stories than the Institute of War, but besides the newer bios/promos you haven't gotten those, yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sternbery View Post
It seems like you guys act like the Institute is shooting you in the foot when I'd argue you haven't even explored what the Institute can do for you.
I agree that we could make it work. And maybe we should have had an event surrounding the fall of the Institute, but, ****, guys, we haven't had one.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 06:26 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
3 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromatic Eagle View Post
With respect, it would help if you guys posted on the forums more often, or at least give us an idea of what you writers do most of the time? Are you writing new champion lore, retconning old lore, or expanding the world?

We find it hard to trust you guys because we're doing a lot of waiting and seeing, without much seeing. You're telling us the lore but not showing us it. What am I supposed to care about in the story? How will you develop that story to keep me invested?
Yes, we are doing all three. The retconning usually comes in the form of champion reworks (Twitch, etc) and events. Personally, I haven't posted much on here because I found it hard to engage - I had to dodge questions about why so-and-so joined the League, or the state of Runeterra, or things I didn't feel comfortably answering because they're still mysteries to us. I tried to be transparent when we had champion AMAs (and those existed on Reddit or Boards), but, unfortunately, those answers really only revolve those certain champions.

Also, honestly, a large part of it is I don't like the structure of the forums and it's hard to sift through topics/posts/etc. The Lore forum isn't hugely active, either - it only gets a few new topics a day - and I didn't want to pop in and be like, "you guys are super invested! Thanks!" and then peace out. That felt bad.

I understand I didn't do a better job here, and I'm deeply sorry for that.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 06:22 AM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
2 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepakuru View Post
What about "Amumu is a cadaver, and he is very sad" is good/attractive to readers though? I love writing, and I'm not a professional or anything but I do some in my free time (typically fiction), and if I wrote something like that I wouldn't want to publish it at all. This isn't a personal shot at you, or whoever wrote that, but rather an honest question.

It's like saying:

-Master Yi is a swordsman. He is very skilled.
-Malphite is a giant rock man. He slings rocks.
-Vayne is an assassin. She uses a crossbow.
-Tristana is a gunner. She likes rockets.

Don't those sound kinda boring to you? Don't you understand why we don't want to trust you?
Yes, I understand; however, not everyone will find those boring. Some people might glom onto "no knowledge of his past" or "trying to discover his true identity" instead of "he's sad."


"Access Temporarily Restricted" WTF RIOT Eliv
2 Weeks Ago 02:48 PM
General Discussion

Eliv

Player Support Tech Specialist

2 Weeks Ago
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquishyTentacles View Post
No sir! Level'd this straight from Lvl1.

Player Support shouldn't have any right to mess with my account without my permission, or my knowledge...
Hey Squishy,

I took a look at your account and it doesn't look like you were removed from a Player Support modification. It seems you received an incorrect error message for this. We are working on pointing it to the proper error message. More importantly, we're working to resolve the issue of players getting kicked out of the champ select queue in the first place.

I'm sorry that you had to sit through the dodge penalty that you didn't deserve.


Poll: New Lore (Shurima Patch) Riot Entropy
2 Weeks Ago 08:02 PM
General Discussion

Riot Entropy

Creative Designer

2 Weeks Ago
4 of 4 Riot Posts

I appreciate the consideration and restraint in terms of responses here, so thanks.

Forgive me for being slow to respond, but it's hard to jump in and out of the thread while making meetings and trying to work.

To the early comments about a blank-slate, that isn't totally true. There's a lot of the JoJ, Judgements, and Champ Lore pages that will be used going forward. My personal preference is to work as much with the existing material as possible on Champion Update, but make changes when needed. Master Yi is a good example of just doing a little course correction. Obviously Sivir got some significant updates, but they were more of an extrapolation of her identity as a mercenary in our world versus completely starting over. Trundle is a case where the character was completely envisioned and while I personally like the end result, I think the criticism about whether or not it's still Trundle is fair. Just because we didn't got back on the decision doesn't mean we didn't hear those criticisms. It may not seem that way from the outside, but these things inform our discussions internally as we make our decisions and can be the impetus for changing our processes going about our work. The Champion Update team operates much differently than it did when I first joined, I think it's all been for the better.

With regard to the game and the lore being completely divorced now. That also isn't true. There's a pretty large distinction between divorcing lore entirely from League of Legends and saying that the actual game you are playing is not a literal part of the world. Heck, it doesn't even mean that we can't or won't use the game in a way to create meaningful engagement in a way that impacts the world. All it is explicitly saying is that the way those stories are expressed in-game or out won't be through killing minions and taking towers.

For those of you who've been waiting this long and want to add "put up or shut up," I'm behind that sentiment all the way. There's not a person on the team who's not interesting in shipping more content to you, but the process of doing that is more complicated than it seems. Future dev blogs will likely cover more specifics and insight into the workings of this process and the complications that arise.


Poll: New Lore (Shurima Patch) Riot Entropy
2 Weeks Ago 05:02 PM
General Discussion

Riot Entropy

Creative Designer

2 Weeks Ago
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChangeling View Post
I understand that it's hard to make new characters in a long standing world, but that doesn't mean you just destroy everything. Just look at the champion suggestion board, and you'll see tons of new ways you can borrow, as I'm sure very few of the fans would mind having their ideas borrowed, especially if you "bought" them with RP, or gave them a nod in world.
Can you explain this then: What was stopping you from doing these stories (like your example of WW snapping and killing Soraka.) with the current lore? You can't tell me that tons of these meaningful stories couldn't have been told within the confines of the Institute of War, or that you're not destroying at least as many as you're creating, with your own "Fiddles gets out of his closet." as an example.
I'm not sure that I follow with the "making new characters" opener. Making new characters hasn't been a problem. Though to the point of taking fan suggestions, there are legal issues that complicate that sort of thing.

My point wasn't that it would be impossible to tell stories within the old framework. Honestly, there are good stories that were told within those confines. It's not an "X > Y" situation, where the old world was terrible and the new is the best thing since sliced bread. It's that this direction is strategically stronger for the IP than the old. I don't know that I can get into more than that without speaking out of turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Bodacious View Post
So can you give us a timeline? An idea on what you're going to do with all the new "freedom" Or are we gunna sit here like a bunch of suckers for another two years before the next thing gets retconned?
So, no, I can't give a timeline, but you may or may not have seen things on the PBE that might indicate something coming soon.


Poll: New Lore (Shurima Patch) Riot Entropy
2 Weeks Ago 04:14 PM
General Discussion

Riot Entropy

Creative Designer

2 Weeks Ago
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlavTech View Post
Please tell us what you plan on doing about:

1. The champions who reference summoners.
2. Summoner Spells.
3. The entire idea that this game is based off of.

Now that you've eliminated summoners. By all means, please tell me. I'm not trying to be an *******, I'm just quite upset.

Everything about this game has essentially been retconned into nothing and you've opened up more holes than you're filling. I'm all for improving on League's Lore, but is this the best way to do it?

Nah, you're not being rude about it. I'd be upset if I was on hold this long too. I'm actually glad that this dialogue can get started because while there will undoubtedly be a lot of arguing it's better than not being able to talk about it. That said, I personally don't have all the answers regarding overall strategy, but I'll speak to what I know.

Ideally, I would suggest hopping into the discussion here rather than keeping it splintered in many threads: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/cre...ring-runeterra

So, to point number one: You might have noticed that those sort of references and motivations have been de-emphasized in past updates. That'll continue. New ties to the world of Runeterra, other Champions and factions will take the place of Summoners.

For two: Players are still summoners, they still have summoner spells, they still summon Champions to fight within the game League of Legends. The difference is that summoners are not directly part of Runeterra and aren't making political plays in Valoran or policing the city-states.

Three: This seems more rhetorical than anything, but I'll answer anyway. The game is still about Summoners calling forth Champions to fight on battlegrounds representing places in the world of Runeterra, but they will no longer be a literal part of that world.

As to whether this is the best way to improve the lore, that's fairly subjective. The way I had it explained to me that allowed me to consider the merits versus the disruption of making such sweeping changes was this: "League of Legends lore is good for League of Legends the game, but it leaves little room to grow outside of the MOBA. If the game is a literal representation of the world, can we affect much meaningful change in the world within the canon? Can Warwick finally lose the last shred of his humanity or finally kill Soraka and save himself in the world we've built? We might be able to create justifications, but would trying to make it work just burden those stories?" Personally, I think Runeterra and its Champions are worth exploring and if that means breaking Fiddle out of his closet in the Institute of War then that's a price I'm willing to pay.

Hopefully that at least makes some sense, even if you don't agree with it.


The truth about the shortened PBE lore (tl;dr It's canon) Riot Opeli
2 Weeks Ago 02:47 PM
Lore Discussion

Riot Opeli

Associate Writer

2 Weeks Ago
1 of 11 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraRising View Post
Imagine you're a new player and you see this champion called "Amumu" during free week. "Aww, he's a sad mummy" you say to yourself. Interested, you look up more about him in the client and the first words you read are "Amumu is an animated cadaver that is very sad."

Would you click the link to the main lore page? I probably wouldn't.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man. I'd totally click on that!

ETA: WELP THAT DIDN'T GO OVER WELL. I tried to diffuse the anger with a ****ty joke and guess what? Bad jokes are bad, especially in a sensitive context like this. Sorry about that.

Anyways, happy to see this discussion going on here. I don't have too many new things to say - I'm kind of spent between Twitter and our Boards. Just wanted to let you know I'm not ignoring this thread. It feels a bit pointless, to be totally honest, because we can't make everyone happy. Older lore fans (I'm generalizing - bear with me) want the old stuff back and for us to undo this change. Going forward with this change in any capacity will make you guys unhappy.

The only thing we can do at this point is explain our reasoning and engage with you and hope you trust us. If you don't, that's fine. But I know the team is interested in making our relationship right.


Poll: New Lore (Shurima Patch) Riot Entropy
2 Weeks Ago 01:49 PM
General Discussion

Riot Entropy

Creative Designer

2 Weeks Ago
1 of 4 Riot Posts

I can confirm that those single paragraph summaries are not intended to be a wholesale replacement of old lore, they exist to be high level summary of the character designed to populate the Lore section within the current client. The longer form lore pieces will still live on the Champion pages outside of the client and continue to be published there. The reason for moving these pieces is because the architecture of the code that populates the Lore pane (and other data) was built with very explicit parameters in mind and attempts to expand beyond those have been painful. We're not going to continue trying to force the material into the system (and occasionally break it in amusing ways), but that doesn't mean we aren't investigating alternatives.

You may have seen the recent discussion on updates to the client in general. Creating a space for the longer form stories (and other media)to live comfortably are also a part of that ongoing development.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 07:21 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
78 of 78 Riot Posts

Ok - i think i got everyone.. like i said topped out my friends list... please comment if i have not added you.

Going to play a game now ;-)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...43o/edit#gid=0


After seeing the previews for the Soraka and Cassiopeia reworks... Ghostcrawler
2 Weeks Ago 10:47 AM
General Discussion

Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

2 Weeks Ago
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
And yet, most of us here has seen what he's done in WoW, which is why were so anti-GC.
What I did on WoW is get out on forums and twitter and talk to players. That is the only reason most players even know my name and not many of the other leads. I plan on still communicating though, hopefully even more so.


After seeing the previews for the Soraka and Cassiopeia reworks... Ghostcrawler
2 Weeks Ago 10:45 AM
General Discussion

Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

2 Weeks Ago
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Sounds like you just don't want to say the statement that your decision are clearly backing. Are you or are you not in favor of Ranged champions having a stronger influence in the game vs melee champions?
I think ranged champions are too dominant and I'd like to see melee bring more to the table than "I hit hard if I can ever close the gap." I don't think that's a simple matter of just buffing melee stats, because then the seesaw just tips in the opposite way: ranged can never kill a melee until the latter is in their face, at which point the melee dumps out all their CDs and gets a kill. (It also makes melee vs melee duels pretty boring because they are both soaking a lot of damage.)

We want to rework fighters. It's a big project and not the kind of thing you are going to see in a patch or two. I know that's frustrating, but really our only options on large scope changes like this are to talk about them early (in which case it's frustrating that you see no action for a long time) or we don't talk about them (in which case it's frustrating because you don't know if we even acknowledge the problem or are formulating a solution). The option of "just fix everyone next patch" isn't really an option.

Quote:
I don't know if it was your decision or someone else's but the itemization for ranged ADC is laughable.
It was something the design team as a whole wanted to do. The problem we were trying to fix was having such static, pre-determined build orders for ADCs. In retrospect you can argue that the change caused more overall harm to the game than good, but at the same time, if we're super paranoid about making any change with long-term ramifications, it just means we'll make fewer changes overall. If anything, the ADC itemization changes (in 4.11 IIRC) illustrate how hard it is to touch one part of the game without touching everything else, which further complicates really big projects like a melee rework. We can try to make larger changes in preseason where players tend to be more understanding of disruption, but there are probably inevitably going to be times when we make a change for a good reason, but have to follow it up with a lot of other changes in subsequent patches.


After seeing the previews for the Soraka and Cassiopeia reworks... Ghostcrawler
2 Weeks Ago 08:14 AM
General Discussion

Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

2 Weeks Ago
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Its Ghostcrawler. What did you expect, a rework that makes any sense?? Let me point you to the many 'reworks' we had in WoW... Oh ya, they all went just like this as well.
I don't do champ updates and I don't tell that team what to do, other than offer some higher level design direction. What I am interested in is the long term health of the game. So questions like "How do we position melee so they have a chance against ranged champions without just pumping up their passive stats?" is something I am involved in. So is making sure you guys have some insight into why we make the changes we do. More on that below.

Quote:
Just a question, how do you explain the fact that since you've joined Riot ranged champions have been dominant over melees for the most part of your time being here?
Also since I have been here, Riot has updated SR and announced Worlds in Korea. I also can take close to zero credit for either of those decisions. If I were to secretly or overtly tell the designers that our mission is to make ranged dominant but shhh don't let any players know of our plan, I'm pretty sure I'd be fired. This is a business, not any one developer's private toy box.

Quote:
Would you at least care to comment on why cassiopeia is being changed from the poison dot queen to just a ryze 2.0?
You'd be better off talking to the designer working on that update. IIRC the direction was to give her more of a late carry feel at the cost of some of her lane bullying potential, but I'm pretty sure nobody here wants to see a hyperscaling, CDR crazy snake Ryze.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure at this point the respective designers (it's Morello really for Soraka) don't care about the issues the community has with the reworks.
Couple of things. Morello isn't doing that update. He doesn't do those either. He feels like he needs to comment because for so long he told players that we thought a true healer wasn't healthy for League. We are trying it anyway with Soraka, so he wants to provide context for this apparent change of heart.

Second, we understand that champ updates aren't likely to be greeted with universal acclaim. Some players like broken champs because they're broken. Others want to see them fixed, but have a specific direction they'd like to see that is sometimes at odds with the direction we choose. We have been trying to articulate our thinking in patch notes, forecasts and rundowns to make that direction clear. Ultimately we do want players to feel like they have lots of options in who they play, and don't want them to feel that a favorite champion is doomed to stay non-viable in competitive play. That's a compass heading and not the kind of thing we can fix overnight. There are a lot of updates needed.


After seeing the previews for the Soraka and Cassiopeia reworks... Ghostcrawler
2 Weeks Ago 06:09 AM
General Discussion

Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

2 Weeks Ago
1 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
ADC meta is going to stay like that as long as GhostCrawler stays.
Is this because of the discussion a few weeks ago when I said melee need love?

If we look at the NA finals (which certainly aren't the only measure of balance but they're fresh on my mind) we saw Corki, Jinx, Lucian, Kog and a whole lot of Trist. I may have forgotten one. Of those, Trist (and maybe Kog) are the ones we worry about being too dominant. We think it's safe to say that the ADC itemization tweaks from a few patches ago, while noble in their goal, ended up removing some of the weaknesses that Tristana had. I'm not sure what steps the live team will take to make sure Trist has some kind of weakness again, but when we last discussed it, we all agreed it was a problem. Interestingly, we see her used less in Korea so it will be fun to see how this all shakes out in worlds.

Again, LCS picks aren't the only measure of champ power that we use, but we know they do heavily influence picks in normal ranked play.

Apologies for the derail, since the original topic wasn't ADCs at all, but I wanted to share our thoughts on the issue. If you have feedback on the Cas or Soraka updates, we'll make sure the respective designers see it.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 01:21 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
77 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adewale02 View Post
MacGruber didn't accept my request.

Feels.
I'm actually at my friend limit, i'll be working with player support to see how to fix that! Sry bud :-(


Soraka's new passive is garbage! Vesh
2 Weeks Ago 12:10 AM
General Discussion

Vesh

Game Designer

2 Weeks Ago
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cards and Dice View Post
A question, Vesh.

What is your opinion on making Soraka's W cost %Current HP instead of Max? Like, 10-20% Current HP instead of 10% max so Soraka doesn't get completely screwed at low health?
This gets asked a lot so let me explain. As you get close to the 50% mark, you create a pretty binary situation where if the enemy doesn't have the tools to burst you, you basically get to sustain your carry infinitely as your costs get lower. Additionally, it creates weird incentives about how much health you ideally want to have to be the most efficient. With the % current model, it's actually way more efficient to keep your health low, but we don't really want to *encourage* people to tank their health down for efficiency. ideally, you want to stay as healthy as possible all of the time.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 09:44 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
76 of 78 Riot Posts

Done for the night played some games with AzureMico and some ranked with Squeaker LOL, thanks guys :-)

Will update the spreadsheet as i go, not everyone is in there, i am only up to page 11 on the thread and maybe page 30 forward.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...43o/edit#gid=0


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 07:13 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
75 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urf Wind Fire View Post
Hey, I'm in Diamond 4 but I'm on my 999th Win. I was hoping if I could play with you for my 1000th win? If it's not too much of a bother.
Sure maybe tonight in Team Builder? I am not sure all of the other Diamond Players will appreciate you dragging me in though.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 07:10 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
74 of 78 Riot Posts

Hey Dudes,

Logging on in a bit, i created a sheet to track who i have added, i have not back filled it yet with all of those i added on Friday/Saturday, but i will.

You can look here for folks looking to Duo in Bronze, i'll keep it updated where i can, or can nominate some trustworthy soul to update it also. Commenting is open though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


Soraka's new passive is garbage! Vesh
2 Weeks Ago 09:46 AM
General Discussion

Vesh

Game Designer

2 Weeks Ago
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Ok so let me explain a bit about the reasoning here.

The goal is to let armor and MR purchases still make Soraka tanky, but in the correct ways. For each point of armor and MR you have, each individual health point becomes a higher effective amount. The ways we don't want Soraka to be tanky are in the short window of burst, because we feel that Soraka needs to be vulnerable if she's allowed to spam low CD heals on her whole team. We -do- want Soraka to be survivable over the long run of the fight however. This means that the health return she gets for landing Q restores similar amount of -effective- HP in the long term because you still have 80% of the mitigation as raw stats and 20% of the value as AP that is effecting the value of the heal. Does that make sense?

Defensive stats still make her scale defensively, but a lot of that defensive power comes from her health regen being stronger, and when she has resists each point of HP is "worth" more, causing the value of the health return to scale in two ways at once. This way we can adjust how much of her long term tankiness needs to be dependent on hitting Qs and how much should just be stats. If we find that the health return isn't offsetting the lack of resists, we can simply increase how much AP she gets per point of resits. It's already in her favor currently (each point of armor/MR is worth 20 gold and AP is worth 21.75 I beleive).


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 09:48 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
73 of 78 Riot Posts

Alright will be adding the folks below when i log on later

ThreshAutolock
soulbanana8
r3wind
Rito Henry
LegionaireReaver
HarukaMay
Drink and Derive
Domnomss
MediocreShadowGG
MonkeymanX6
EckHearT Geminus
Polostabs
Ostrad
FloralVibes
RpgCraft123
Tkerst
V0rse
MrLyesmith
Dani Dash
HemiPoweredDrone
PERMA CHAT BAN
takeshi85
Morgana Senpai
tbc56
MizumiAngel
Darius Bleed OP
GlitchSteel
JPLangley 2

It looks like i won't be short of a duo partner for a long long time... :-)


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
2 Weeks Ago 09:42 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

2 Weeks Ago
72 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeymanX6 View Post
I can play duo with a friend and it is not so hard to chat with just 3 of your allies when you have someone by your side. When you play duo at your friend's house it is actually better because you laugh and share every thought with your partner and also discuss the game privately.

Last night I played as WW with a friend of mine watching the game on my screen (Match was not saved by the server issues). I was a hero in the match. Enemy team started with a 7 kill streak and I got the first 3 kills of my team in heroic moments. At one moment, I was gonna save my Akali. I saved her successfully, with my ult and I made the enemy (Teemo) run for he was weak. When I turn back because enemy team was approaching, Akali wanted to finish up that Teemo so damn bad, that she wasted flash IN BETWEEN 4 enemy champions while all my teammates were on their lanes and she got a fine @$$whooping in there. My friend on real life laughed at my team so hard. He said that Akali's actions were replay worthy. He told me "Now I can see why you cant escape from bronze". I replied "Yup. That is a perfect example." I was supposed to midlane as the new Veigar to show it of like the boss he is. We were last 2 picks, I was next to last and she claimed mid just when our turn came and I even called mid pref right after last ban.


In other hand duo players can be real d**ks in draft mode because they think that they have control of the picks and they do not respect the champion selection order and they choose what they just want. Still, most of the times I allow them because that makes 2 people feel better instead of just me.


A good solution:
We need an option that can help summoners boot another during champion selection. That should be made with confidential votes on a selected summoner. 4 votes should kick the summoner from the game. The kicked summoner should get a +1 LP bonus and a 10 minute time ban that increases exponentially as he gets kicked more often. All other 4 summoners get -1 LP and get placed back in queue.

I really prefer to lose 1 LP than play a match, waste my time and lose. Just a suggestion
Interesting suggestion, i can see you've put some thought into it aswell, if one of the game designers swings by maybe they'll comment on it.


"we didnt want soraka to become a healbot" Vesh
3 Weeks Ago 06:16 PM
General Discussion

Vesh

Game Designer

3 Weeks Ago
1 of 1 Riot Posts

We didn't want a non-interactive healer who didn't make interesting gameplay decisions. We believe we have found a way to solve those problems.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 03:16 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
71 of 78 Riot Posts

k - think i've added everyone, If not just send me a request, will be back once i'm done with other stuff.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 03:15 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
70 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello Nerf Bat View Post
Hi MacGruber I'm not Bronze V yet since I'm only level 18, but I am involved in Bronze-level balancing decisions. Is this an acceptable substitute for admittance into thy glorious bronze army?
lol absolutely.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:44 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
69 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by THynes View Post
500 games plus in bronze, cant escape
You can do it dude. Your Udyr win rate is legit, try and stick with him maybe?


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:41 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
68 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeymanX6 View Post
I wish that some of the summoners in bronze just NOT be toxic. I always get teammates that talk thrash to each other almost every single game and sometimes I even feel stupid when I join their conversations.

When they start annoying me for the chat, I say "Summoners like you will keep me stuck on bronze forever for your behavior, or you wanna win?".

^^^
This quote can vary depending on the game




I remember that yesterday in draft pick, someone was not agreeing with the team for positions and I said that quote. He replied "Like I care", then, "You will stay in bronze forever and I am gonna f**k you up every time." and the game did not even had started.

I even get depressed when they just don't stop and get aggressive to me after I tell them to stop. I know that muting them is an option, but I would only mute the person that harasses me.


On my season records:
I started playing this between February and April of season II. I actually never played ranked that season. On season III, I played ranked but I quit because I couldn't take the summoners. Now I am playing to get season rewards but I just cannot because my teams always end up turning on each other.

So... I say that bronze is like a trap hole full of summoners that can help help you escape by lifting you, but they refuse. If you are going to escape the hole alone, they will not allow you and they will pull you by your legs back in the hole.



My league goal is to reach silver V and if I achieve this, I will be happy like, forever.
Sry to hear that dude - you should duo with some of the dudes on this thread, or i'll duo with you, my ww is not bad these days.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:30 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
67 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinglish27 View Post
I'm unranked, can I join MacGruber?
Sure - i just been playing mostly ranked, but yep


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:23 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
66 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solmyr View Post
MacGruber!

I was sleeping when you made this thread, but I'm here now!

I would love to join your army of Bronze 5 Underlords.

As someone who has been playing for somewhere around 2-3 years now and never touched Ranked, I solemnly swear to have fun and not know how to play the game very well.
Just added you, i won't be playing many games today as i have to finish a paper for a course i am doing, but will be online later and tomorrow.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:20 PM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
65 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenSlashTen View Post
bronze =/= non toxic
ha.

if you want to play games I'll play, but not ranked.
Idc what mode, not ranked though.
Sure i just added you


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 03:20 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
64 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cidolfus Bunansa View Post
I haven't played Ranked in ages. I think the last time was when there was such a thing called "ELO" if anyone remembers it.
This must this MMR you speak of


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 03:18 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
63 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordUraj View Post
I am bronze 1, somehow immune to the ways of LP decay from my friends that make me play ranked once a harvest moon, but I would love to play with you if you will have me.
I shall have thee.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 03:13 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
62 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Im Totally Miles View Post
I'm pretty sure this is impossible, the system prevents you from being demoted for a few games after getting promoted, doesn't it?
Or is this not a thing now?
Sorry i should have said 1 game at 0 LP


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:58 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
61 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkie Cat View Post
I'm Bronze I, and haven't been able to win a ranked game for the past 10 games. I've been at -3 lp for 9 of those games, why am I still in Bronze I?

Also I'd like to play with ya Mac.

xd
Welcome to ranked dude, i got into B4 and then i lost one game and went right back to B5, i'm not special, and i feel your pain. i cant game the ssytem :-). I was like what? Lets play together.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:54 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
60 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayArrrr View Post
two of my accounts have chat restrictions. 4 don't. When you start letting a game change you, especially if it's to blow smoke up the ass of others and lie to people because that's what the game developers want you to do so the people who are terrible at the game continue to pay money for it, you are officially addicted

Rioters get paid to advertise this BS, so of course he's going to agree with you, lol.
wow man. sorry but you don't get what Riot stands for. i absolutely do not get paid to agree with anyone. In fact i am encouraged to give people feedback on stuff i don't agree with on a daily basis (not on gd this is something i just enjoy participating in and is an open forum), but hell dude, if you are looking for corporate conspiracy you are literally looking in the wrong place. As part of my job, we work daily to try and prioritize player focused projects, stuff that will help your experience. It doesn't always pan out, but man if you came here and saw the passion of the Rioters that work for you, you might change your mind. Even tonight, 4 guys on our team stayed all night to try and help one of our teams understand the impact of the latest patch changes. And we love it.

We think about the player above all else, but i understand it might be hard to see sometimes.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:35 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
59 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThasWatSheZed View Post
Then you're a person who doesn't know how to reform, and are most likely chat restricted 24/7 Reform can happen. Change can happen
+10


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:34 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
58 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayArrrr View Post
You really haven't. Attitude reform is impossible. You simply put on a happy face when you play league because you are addicted to it, or wasted a bunch of money on it, and are afraid to be banned.
JayArrrr, dude, i'm not even sure if you are trolling. League is played by people. Haven't you ever learned from a mistake and then decided not to do that thing again?


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:32 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
57 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot MacGruber View Post
One of my all time fav summoner names because of friends i had with the same name in the 90's. Added. Greggles op.
Disclaimer - i am legit old. like quality old, like the Dosecki's guy.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:31 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
56 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greggles252 View Post
I'm not ranked(yet) because I started only a few months ago but if you're looking for someone to chill with at any point, I'd love to play a game or two with you. Summoner name is my forum name.
One of my all time fav summoner names because of friends i had with the same name in the 90's. Added. Greggles op.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:28 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
55 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThasWatSheZed View Post
MacGruber, wanna join the fappy place? Huehuehue....;D I'm dyin over here! Sona heal me! XDDD I crack myself up. :3
dem jokes doh.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:27 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
54 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagel Volcanoe View Post
Bronze ftw!
Boom. This guy has it down already.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:26 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
53 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThasWatSheZed View Post
Dude, I got loads of packages of beef jerky, slim jims, and a1 sauce, getcho ass over here and we can cheeeeeeel
Dude, so i have a major problem for chicken wings since i came to the states. If there are chicken wings, i will be there, regardless of the sauce. Are there chickin wings?!? so far unconfirmed.


Legit Bronze Fivers Riot MacGruber
3 Weeks Ago 02:20 AM
General Discussion

Riot MacGruber

Engineering Manager

3 Weeks Ago
52 of 78 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuteKiss View Post
Please add me,

Started out bronze 1 and dropped to bronze 3 in two days ;'(
The downgrade is real. Join the club.