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Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fomorian27 View Post
1) Irrespective of those dates, have there been other times when dominion's population drastically rose/fell? Possibly when aram came out (similar to my story)?

2) How has aram's popularity fared over time? According to the featured game mode devs, the popularity of a game mode declines naturally over time, has that been true of ARAM as well?

3) You've mentioned a couple of times that normals are more popular than ranked. How many orders of magnitude are we talking?

4) How has team builder affected populations? Does it have a steady population now? Is it anywhere close to replacing blind pick as the de facto game mode?
1) I didn't see any times when Dominion's population drastically rose. However, the official release of Howling Abyss did reduce the numbers on Dominion. This could suggest that players that enjoy "alternative" maps that have different pacing prefer Howling Abyss to Dominion, and that these maps fill the same need for these players. I understand that some players might think of Dominion as a competitive map, but it might not be the majority opinion. For example, I bet there are some players that think Howling Abyss is a competitive map and would prefer to play Ranked Howling Abyss too--but, it'd be a far stretch to say the majority of players think that way.

2) Howling Abyss has done really well over time.

3) Unfortunately, I can't release the exact orders of magnitude, but the vast majority of players still prefer Normals compared to Ranked.

4) Interestingly, Team Builder hasn't pulled much from the alternative maps like Dominion and Twisted Treeline. Team Builder has mainly split the Normal Blind Pick population, which is something we're very sensitive to. We have some key design choices we want to make in Team Builder to make the queues as fast as Blind Pick, and want to see how these changes play out before discussing the replacement of Blind Pick. For example, we may run some experiments where we do have players only select Position and see if the experiences are just as positive, but queue times are much lower.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 07:15 AM
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Lyte

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0115D8CF View Post
a question about the data and research:
is there a significant number of players in draft dominion? and, what would be the affect on the player base of replacing normal draft with a ranked draft?
This is another interesting data point. If there was a large number of Normal Draft Dominion players, you might be able to argue that most of these players would be interested in Ranked Dominion and that would be the "starting" playerbase of Ranked Dominion plus some additional group of incoming players.

However, Normal Draft Dominion is completely unplayed and has never had any engagement. In fact, after reviewing the data, we should probably close Normal Draft Dominion completely.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 09:15 PM
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Lyte

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stez007 View Post
ARAM grew in popularity because it was heavily promoted. It didn't need to be seen as competitive, but the other three requirements were fulfilled in spades. There was a huge blog post, you could solo queue for it, and there were 'rewards' in that the mechanics were legitimized: people no longer had to rely on the honor of other players to make the game 'fair,' they could just queue for HA.

That's why HA was so successful and Dominion was not.
I intend on reading the full post, but am curious about this point. How do you explain the growth of ARAM when it was a Custom Game? This was before the blog post, before being able to queue for it, before any support at all.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 09:10 PM
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Lyte

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talix of the 35 View Post
Lyte, thank you so much for jumping into this topic.

I just figured I'd jump on the wagon of "I'd play this game type if it had a ranked option or something similar."

I've played Dominion before, and it was a really enjoyable game type. But like everyone has said, there's no indication that you are improving and whatnot, like what Ranked offers on Summoner's Rift.

My biggest question was already asked earlier in the thread; if you don't want to support alternate game types, why did Twisted Treeline get ranked?
A lot of players have mentioned that "indication of improvement" and Ranked as a measurement of skill might be key drivers of player growth, but I haven't found that to be a compelling argument for a few reasons.

One, when we look at Normal Summoner's Rift versus Ranked Summoner's Rift, we can see that most players prefer to play Normal Summoner's Rift (and that the queue has done really well over the course of time). It may surprise some, but Ranked is not the the mode the majority of players play! Although I agree that some players would play Dominion more if there was progression and a measurement of skill in something like Ranked, to say that it would drive general player growth is a stretch because most players prefer not being faced with high-intensity, high-stakes games every time they play League.

In fact, depending on how you slice the data, it's possible that removing MMR in Dominion/Normal Summoner's Rift actually increased the engagement of these modes because you're removing the constant "stakes" in each match.

---

Regarding Twisted Treeline Ranked, in retrospect, it's hard to say whether it was the right choice. As a games studio, I think it's OK sometimes to admit mistakes, and try to learn from them. Game design and game development is really hard, and it's pretty difficult to predict exactly how players will receive a new feature, system or queue. In the old days, it seemed obvious that we should open a Ranked version of Twisted Treeline, but did it actually damage the overall growth of Twisted? Did players get frustrated with the queue times and lopsided matches, and quit Twisted altogether? These are key questions that help us learn from the choices we make.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellioning View Post
Now that you've started replying to negative opinions, I don't think anyone should really claim that you're ignoring the dissenting opinions. They might make the case you're dismissing them, though.

When that comment was made, though, you had replied to 7 comments. I'd say 3 of them were positive, 3 of them were simple questions that were neither positive nor negative, and one comment that didn't like the changes. I could see how someone could get the wrong idea.
Yeah, that makes sense.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 09:08 PM
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Okay guys! Got to around page 25 this time around, sorry if I'm still lagging behind your post =[. Calling it a night here, but I'll be back tomorrow to catch up a bit on what I missed.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin Eclipse View Post
Is her new passive adjusted for Dominion? If not, she won't be viable in Dominion anymore. The game won't go long enough for her to get a meaningful number of stacks. I could also see problems in Twisted Treeline. Right now she is very good in Twisted, but the game may not go long enough for her new kit to remain viable.
She has not been adjusted on alternate maps. We could take an awkward stab at the numbers and hope they are close, but we simply don't have enough data on how she would perform on those maps to make an accurate guess. The levers are in place to adjust her accordingly (namely, the number for her breakpoints changing based on the map), so we should have an easy time adjusting her for the different maps as we get more information.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masalar View Post
I'm here as an impartial observer. I don't play Cass, have no plans to do more than give her a try post rework (which I do with every champion), and am only here because I follow the Red Tracker.

Riot Stashu...you're gonna have to reply to the people who aren't happy. There has to be something you can say to them. An explanation, anything. I get them most of them are just unhappy, and will be unhappy with anything other than completely reversing the decision. But this is the sort of thing that will only come back in the future in a bad way. Riot is under massive, and well justified, critique for poor communication. You ignoring the negative opinions is only adding fuel to the fire. If you aren't up to it, get Morello or someone in here who doesn't mind the negativity as much.

I get that this is a big first step for you, I get that the positive posts tend to be the most constructive and useful. I get all this. But, sadly, what YOU do is now only a smaller part of the whole, and avoiding the negative, for whatever reason (possibly a great reason, I don't know 'cuz there's no communication...see what I did there?) is furthering Riot's "bad communication" image.

Still, it's an interesting rework, will be fun to try, and I wish you a good day.
Yeah, this seems to be how everyone is reacting. I see that I replied to one particularly positive one, and can see how that drew some suspicion. Though, I believe the rest of my posts have largely been in response to dissenting opinions. Maybe I'm wrong here. If that's the case, I'm really sorry, that wasn't my intention =[


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz al Ghul View Post
Are her ability icons getting an update as well? I like the sharpness and simplicity that the newer icons on champs like Ashe, Skarner, Sona, and Karthus have now. They tend to stand out as one or two colors on a sharp black background and they tend to be more symbolic.
Totally agree here, but sadly they are on the backburner for now (they are there, though).


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lambence View Post
So you aren't dealing with the fact that during teamfights just using a rotation of one q and then spamming e 6 times will use 540 MANA!? In lane sure the mana will be conserved, in teamfights your using around 600 mana every few seconds. No amount of regen can keep up with this.
It's true, things might be overtuned. However, itemizing one large many item (seraphs or RoA, say) allows you to over come this pretty handily because of how valuable they make the mana restore. As you grow your mana pool, you grow the rate at which you recover it, which should mean that both Cassiopeia has more 'ammo' and takes less time to 'recharge' as the game goes on.

But it's true, we'll have to see if the numbers are just a little off.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderBoy55 View Post
Can you explain the decision to give her hard spikes at 75/200/400 stacks? It seems a bit hyperbolic where she'll presumably be hitting item spikes and level spikes around the same time, making her power curve pretty radical.

Alternatively, what if she got something like:
Cassiopeia gains 1% per 15 stacks and 1% CDR per 10 stacks (up to 25% CDR).

This would make her power grow gradually similar to Nasus or Veigar, rather than spiking super hard at specific intervals.
We actually had a version like you describe in testing, and the first version of Cassiopeia to hit PBE did this smooth scaling for the AP bonus. However, neither tested well, as the incremental increases were simply unappreciable, and other bonuses are intended to come into effect at specific points in the game and not until then. The stack mechanism and numbers that we landed on solved all this pretty well.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 08:47 PM
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Lyte

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1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFerric View Post
Any way you could check growth for Dom before and after Jabebot was taken down? Many players believe after their personal mmr was no longer visible the mode began to die (which would be an indicator that ranked would help).
Do you remember when this happened?


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS1ba1f68addd419be29b51 View Post
(Throw me into the right thread if this is against some ruleset, I do want a Red to notice, however)
Now, I've been very interested in the new Cass rework. I like the idea of having most of her kit act as utility for her E, which then will act as her primary damage ability. What I have been concerned about is how "fun" this iteration of a skillset will be to play as, and against.
Like most people I've had my ideas of things that should be different or added to the remake, and since I wont simply contribute with a loud "God YES" or "NO pls", I've come up with the following change for her passive, which I personally would find very intriguing as the Cass player:


Cassiopeia gains a stack of Aspect of the Serpent
for each second that an enemy champion is poisoned,
for each poisoned unit that she kills and when she
hits an enemy champion with Twin Fang,
up to a max. of 400 stacks.

75 STACKS: 5% increased ability power.
150 STACKS: 10% increased ability power.
225 STACKS: 15% increased ability power.
300 STACKS: 20% increased ability power.
350 STACKS: 25% increased ability power.
400 STACKS: 30% increased ability power.

At start of the game, and for each milestone she will also get
an evolution point. These points can be spent on 7
different upgrades. She will eventually get every
upgrade, but the order is completely player dependent.
(Sort of like how Kha'Zix evolves)

- Twin Fang now heals for 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 / 16 (+ 10% AP).
- 25% bonus cooldown reduction.
- 15 (+ 2% AP) bonus flat movement speed.
- +15 HP/lvl (+ 25% AP)
- 150 bonus range to Noxious Blast
- 3 second lower cooldown to Miasma
- Latent Venom - 5% of the damage from her basic abilities will be
added as Latent Venom, which will then burst 4 seconds after
the last damage taken from these abilities, refreshing with every new
instance of damage. (Imagine a refreshing Zed ult)


Note that the "upgrades" are merely suggestions. They could be whatever fits the community and Riot developers. (Twin Fang on-hit effect, less cast time on her ult, you name it)
This change will keep her kit as it is, allow the Cassiopeia player to make some choices as the game goes on (Getting harassed in lane, go Twin Fang heal. Afraid of that Annie burst, go bonus hp. Need help at dodging them Karthus bombs, go movement speed)
while further pushing the utility power in the rest of her kit.

Hit me with some feedback!
I have to say, this is super exciting. However, if the passive we landed on had complexity costs, boy does this one haha. It would be fun to try something more like this, but it would require implementing all sorts of new systems to work with evolving a trait from a pool of 7 and all sorts of stuff like that, which the game currently doesn't support. Maybe this could be a cool project some time in the future, but seems unlikely for now.

That said, I like the way you think!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by From Europe View Post
It would be cool if you scrapped that boring farming passive...


It's not a farming passive D=. Well, it does include farming but...

The minion/monster farming part of the passive functions almost entirely as a fallback pattern. Though, it does come across as being the primary stacking mechanism. I found this very difficult to solve through messaging, but I assure you, if you crunch the numbers or just play enough games on her you'll quickly realize that farming minions/monsters in hopes of stacking your passive is MUCH less efficient than hitting enemy champions with your abilities.

The minion/monster part of it is just so that when you can't find any champions to fight, you have something to do to work towards your end goal. If this wasn't the case, enemy champions could just play keep away all game and you'd get reallllly frustrated. That said, this is still an effective way of slowing down Cassiopeia, but at least she won't be full-stopped.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofsween View Post
That passive scales additively with Deathcap and the mastery I hope?
So this is a little unclear, but the way these stack is as follows:

Base AP.
Aspect of the Serpent AP boost.
Archmage on top of Aspect of the Serpent AP boost.
Deathcap on top of Archmage and Aspect of the Serpent AP boosts.

So, the way the numbers break down, when both Deathcap and her passive are both giving 30% amped AP, Deathcap will actually be giving more, numerically, because it stacks on top of her passive.

Does that make sense?


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AsheIsElite View Post
TL;DR: These changes specifically to tunnel Cass into a 2.0 attack speed ADC that deals magic damage rather than psychical damage really sucks because it doesn't fit with the rest of her kit. The new passive is also just there to support a late game hyper carry style when she won't be able to lane if all her damage is on Twin Fangs without the mana to cast it.
I could definitely see how some of the changes come across like this, but I'd have to disagree on a few points. Primarily, I think she has more of a kite pattern now than before, with her kiting tools having more power in their movementspeet related aspects and with her ult being more reliable.

I the end, it's true, a lot of the math and comparison points for this update were ADCs, but I'm very confident that there are enough defining and distinct features in Cassiopeia's gameplay (i.e, the way her kit comes together) to make her feel significantly different than ADCs.

As for mana, maintaining the mana to cast spells in lane should be very doable with some practice on priming minions with poison/basic attacks and last hitting them with E. If this turns out simply not to be true, then we'll have to retune things accordingly.

I think we landed on a coherent kit that flows well, especially when you invest time into mastering it, so I encourage you to play around with it a bit. I really do hope that you enjoy it, as it definitely makes me sad to disappoint Cassiopeia players


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 08:20 PM
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Riot Stashu

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephiedra View Post
So that 2000 HP squishy will be SUPER dead now, as opposed to being "just dead" before, I see.

Nah, I'm just being facetious. That said, I think people have put forward some very valid concerns about Cassio's rework that cannot be countered simply by saying "well, she hits harder later now," and implying not touching on that particular subject is somehow diminishing the validity of said people's argument is silly.

You are okay with the changes, been vocal about it on forums, and you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, which is that much more valuable considering your experience on Cassio, but the way I see it (I don't play this champion) Cassio had done to her what Lee Sin enthusiasts rightfully defended their preferred champion from (I don't own Lee): a 180 change in play pattern, made worse by a disservice to a poison mage archetype.

Where she used to be a lane bully, she is now a farm laner. Where she used to fall off late (not in terms of damage, mind you), now she's a hypercarry. That enough is reason for alarm, since her power curve was reversed (see the Lee fiasco.) Then you have a shift from a skillshot oriented mage with fluidity of targeting given by her impressive DoT to a heavily committing mage with the majority of her power allocated on a targeted spell on minimal cooldown. Once upon a time, Cassio was considered (one of) the hardest champion(s) to play. To me, there's more than enough reason to speak up about the issue, because it goes beyond "b-but she deals a lot of guaranteed damage now!", it touches on the correct execution of a gaming archetype, a violent shift in power curves and a redistribution of her power quotas that leave her feeling like not-Cassiopeia for some people. That's evidently not your case, and I haven't witnessed you particularly shut down any of these claims, but nevertheless I would advise you don't let your enthusiasm about a higher overall damage profile distract from the consideration-worthy worries some people have expressed.


From a personal point of view, and seeing how I don't have an emotional attachment to this champion whatsoever, I stand uncomfortable because I get the feeling Cassiopeia was held "ransom": she needed bugfixes, but people are only getting those coupled with a rework that changes what Cassiopeia is about entirely. That is not cool. E reliability, R reliability were things Cassiopeia was *entitled to*, and pretending what she needed to get those was to receive an overhaul is a lie I would never subscribe. I understand a more reliable E would make her more powerful on her old kit, but that's easily fixed by numbers. What has been done to Cassio can't. You can't undo with number a change in philosophy. It seems, to me, like Riot arbitrarily changed her play pattern disregarding whether it was already healthy, rewarding or fun (it was), but most importantly, engaging for the people who play her that now complain she's an AP marksman... but that's my two cents.
Great thinking here, you bring up a lot of interesting points. The ones I'm most interested in talking about are 1) 180 degree shift in play pattern , 2) that her damage is no longer reliant on her skill shots, and 3) that the update was just tacked on to bugfixes/reliability changes.

1) We tried to pay very careful attention to this one in our brainstorming. The reason the passive grants LOTS more stacks when hitting champions than minions/monsters is to preserve a lot of her old play pattern. That is, in order for lane bully Cassiopeia to be successful, she needs to land her abilities on her lane opponent carefully and frequently, and in order for scaling Cassiopeia to be successful, she needs to land her abilities on her lane opponent carefully and frequently. In terms of actual play pattern, not much has actually changed. The outputs (or, what her opponent notices) has changed a bit-- Cassiopeia is less of a threat early in the game but more of a threat late game.

2) While her damage (number wise) will mostly come from her Twin Fang, she is entirely dependent on consistently landing Noxious Blast for both poison application and the movement speed to stay in range of Twin Fang. Miasma also helps her here, in much the same way.

So, where her damage is coming from in particular and at which points of the game her damage will be high are changing, I think we're preserving much of the traditional Cassiopeia play pattern.

3) So, I can definitely see how this update comes across as a misguided attempt at making a character 'better' for no good reason. I assure you, this is not the case! There were problems on Cassiopeia's kit that, while not on the level of some other champions in the game, still needed to be addressed. Shurima and her texture update provided a great opportunity to do all of these things. I wont go deeply into the problems here, but they generally involve non-interactive lane bullying patterns, game-stalling, and problem with unsatisfying or under-appreciated DoTs (though, not by all people).

I hope all of this makes sense/seems fair. I also don't seek to invalidate the concerns you expressed, as they are all certainly valid. I just wanted to provide some context on the changes and hopefully explain that there was a reason for everything. It's true that all of this comes at costs, and as you explained, it may have left "her feeling like not-Cassiopeia for some people." This is probably true for some people, and I'm sorry for that . However, in the end, I think Cassiopeia will still feel a lot like Cassiopeia in many of the ways that people love, express less problems than she has historically, and have a stronger identity overall. Time will certainly tell, and I promise to be around to make right anything that goes wrong.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Lyte
1 Week Ago 08:19 PM
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Lyte

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Hey everyone,

I normally don't post about topics outside of player behavior or game systems design, but I'm at home currently and heard a lot of discussions about this thread at the office. There's so much genuine love and concern for Dominion here that I spent the last hour pulling every data point I could to hopefully better show players what the problems are.

---

One concern I'm frequently seeing is that Dominion would have much better growth if Riot supported it more. I traced back to the following dates (which may be off here and there, my apologies):

1) 2012 | Twisted Treeline Visual Update
2) June, 2013 | Map-specific changes to Twisted Treeline and Dominion were announced
3) October, 2013 | Map-specific changes to a bunch of Champions were made for Twisted Treeline and Dominion
4) April, 2014 | Twisted Treeline received a few balance changes, specifically with altars

We could debate whether visual updates, map-specific balance changes to champions and map balance changes is considered support for a map, but the data is pretty clear: there was no meaningful sustained growth in Twisted Treeline or Dominion as a result of these updates.

---

A second concern I'm frequently seeing is that if Dominion Ranked was opened, players will come. Although we haven't tested it with Dominion specifically, we did open Twisted Treeline Ranked. The data is pretty clear here too: when we opened Twisted Treeline Ranked we haven't seen sustained growth for Twisted Treeline as a map.

---

If we look at Howling Abyss, the story is very different. For example, before Riot ever supported the map, it was simply a custom game mode. Players had "gentlemen's agreements" to play by the rules, and just ran it in a Custom Game. As a game mode, it grew steadily in popularity, and updating the map into Howling Abyss kept that growth going.

---

Unfortunately, I don't have many answers because I haven't dedicated enough time to thinking about this space, and probably just have more questions. I even looked at things like Champion Diversity (in Twisted Treeline and Dominion) and Champion Bans (in Twisted Treeline Ranked) and there aren't that many differences. It's not like these maps are significantly more imbalanced than Summoner's Rift when you specifically look at these two metrics (champion picks and bans) and in fact Champion Ban diversity is a bit better in Twisted Treeline Ranked.

I can't tell you today why updates improved the growth of some queues, but not others. However, I think it's pretty clear that "opening Dominion Ranked" and "support for Dominion" may not grow the playerbase like players expect. There's obviously a passionate playerbase for these maps, but I think the solutions being proposed aren't going to solve the problem.

So, the question we should really try to answer is: For those who aren't playing Dominion, why not? For players who don't play League and want to get into League for the first time, what map do they prefer, and why? I think it's important that we start asking players who don't already love Dominion these types of questions because if we don't, we're simply being biased in what we think will attract new players.

Maybe finding answers to these questions will help us understand what we should actually do about these maps.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktorious Alekt View Post
If Twin Fang lands on a target who died as the projectile is on the way, will you have a reset?

Currently you do not receive a reset, even though the target was clearly poisoned. Technically, it's always dangerous to try to finish off with Twin Fang if you are aiming for a second target after.

Now, with the upcoming focus on E as Cassiopeia's main damage abilities, we will see more of that irritating mechanic; which in fact would not exist is the champion in question was called Yasuo or Thresh. Do you plan on updating that mechanic since Noxious Blast's ending DoT will no longer be a safe way to finish off a target?

Great Cassiopeia will not finish off the target with Twin Fang since if she doesn't get the kill, her cooldown does not reset and her dps will lower and she could even die because of it. Additionally, with Q, W and R being of a lower DPS, and E taking charge of 80% of the DPS, we'll see it more and more. Cassiopeia will constantly be in a weird position when it comes to grabbing a kill since she will constantly be in greater risk to lose that E reset.
Yes it should function in the improved way you describe here. If it's not as forgiving as it needs to be, we can make it more so or less so as necessary. But yes, this problem was in the scope of these changes ;D


RIOT - PROMO SERIES should NOT exist! Riot Socrates
1 Week Ago 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond Law View Post
Good thing there are rewards for casuals. O wait there's none.
This is a topic I would be interested to get some feedback on. How many of you feel like it would be valuable to have an alternative end game progression system to ranked for casuals?


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum ManWolfAxeBoss
1 Week Ago 03:34 PM
General Discussion

ManWolfAxeBoss

QA Analyst

1 Week Ago
3 of 12 Riot Posts

Thanks for the responses everyone. And for keeping things mostly civil.

Our stance hasn't changed, but we've got a few options to discuss within our team now. Unfortunately, we don't have any answers to give right away, but we'll share them when we do.


RIOT - PROMO SERIES should NOT exist! Riot Socrates
1 Week Ago 03:06 PM
General Discussion

Riot Socrates

Systems Designer

1 Week Ago
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Ranked solo isn't for everybody, this is why it's an opt in experience. Some players want to know how they measure up to the competition as an individual. It exists to serve this purpose. I challenge your assumption that solo queue position doesn't reflect skill because it's a team game though. Players consistently climb or fall to an accurate position on the ladder even after resets or when playing on alts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaejinTye View Post
The entire ranked system is already garbage because of how team reliant the game is. (Actually just came off a loss ranked because of literally 1 person on our team getting caught out in the same spot by the same enemies over and over and over all game long.)

Solo queue is literally completely separate from skill because of all this. There simply isn't any relation between how I play and how I'm ranked. This is reason enough to remove promotional games... As I can't constantly be held responsible for what people entire divisions below me in rank do.

The other problem with these promo's, is how your system purposefully puts the odds against us by matching us with lower ranked players (with current history of negatives) against players who are ranked above us. (Both good and negative current histories.) Why do I need to win 1v5's in order to get anywhere?

I get how this works for pre-made teams, but the solo queue system is just broken. 90% luck based isn't good for a competitive game. If we drop the promo series, we at least lessen the negatives that solo queue are filled with.

Aside from the few who get free passes game after game and climb as a result, solo queue has literally 0 positives unless you're content with a skin once a year. (Which I have been screwed out of twice now... Kinda wish being Gold in S1 and S3 counted for me...)

You can't give 1 reason for their existence in solo queue as things stand now.


RIOT - PROMO SERIES should NOT exist! Riot Socrates
1 Week Ago 02:41 PM
General Discussion

Riot Socrates

Systems Designer

1 Week Ago
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Challengur Suppo View Post
implying a short term 75/66% winrate is ridiculous..

you can climb on something as low as a 52% winrate. Requiring a bit of a more positive win/loss during series makes complete sense.
There is a misconception around this being true. In reality promotion series win rates are about ~47%.


RIOT - PROMO SERIES should NOT exist! Riot Socrates
1 Week Ago 01:52 PM
General Discussion

Riot Socrates

Systems Designer

1 Week Ago
1 of 4 Riot Posts

Thanks for the feedback. A few of the reasons you called out for removing promos are issues that should be addressed across all ranked games and not just in promos. For example, whether you're in promos or not, having somebody rage or AFK on your team isn't a great experience. Also, lagging out in the middle of a ranked game whether you're in promos or not totally sucks.

We've been working with the player behavior team to create a more robust system to address behavior related issues in ranked. For example, we're testing a feature on PBE called Ranked Restrictions that blocks players with a consistently negative behavior from playing ranked games. We will have more details to share on this in the coming weeks.

I'm not able to speak to lag issues in a super educated way, but I do know there is a team at work to address those issues. When we see connection issues, we enable compensation mode which forgives lost promos and lost LP, but still counts wins. This isn't a perfect solution, but it does help shield players from a situation outside of their control.

One of the reasons you called out I disagree with. That is making ranked a more smooth experience. There is a bit more to series than just making the matches feel important and exciting. Division promotions reinforce the value of achieving competitive milestones. If we removed promotional series it would be easier to climb. In ranked easier doesn't mean it's strictly better though. Ranked play is about accepting the challenge of being measured by your skill. This is really what separates it from normals. Every change to make the system easier undermines what the accomplishments mean. What separates you from the players in lower tiers is not only the LP gains, but the series you fought through where you proved yourself and came out on top.

If you consider the example you gave where a player is at the top of Bronze V and wins consistently, then fails to win his promos repeatedly, should he really qualify for Bronze IV? Probably not. If he's going 1-1 assuming equal gains and losses he's at 100 LP still. If he's going 1-2 he's lower than 100 LP, which is why LP can be lower after failing a series (especially in the case of going 0-2). There are a also number of safeties in place to ensure if you're more than qualified to move on to the next tier you can either skip two tiers after completing your promos, or skip them entirely. If you're in promos and not skipping it's because the system isn't confident enough in your skill to move you to the next tier yet.

Socrates


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil Soybean View Post
Before we go on, let me ask you guys something honestly.
Recall the last time you reached a Series. Whether it be from Bronze IV to Bronze III, or Diamond II to Diamond I, it doesn't matter - just think back to that time.

Now tell me, honestly - which of these two feelings were you leaning more towards?

1) Super excitement at how important these next matches are!
2) Extreme frustration at the possibility of feeders/trollers/AFK'ers in your following promo matches.


As I recall, it has been Riot's stance in the past that they have Promo Series between divisions because it makes certain games feel more important and more exciting.
But with the end of the season coming up, I feel like one of the big changes for S5 should be removing the existence of Promotional Series.

Please, hear me out.




I honestly think the existence of Series is at the core for a lot of the games major issues. Trolls, feeders, AFKers, etc. would not be as harmful if Series didn't exist, simply because they couldn't completely ruin your work by forcing you to lose that one important series match. Toxicity and raging would be lessened in a similar way - if you're super-anxious and frustrated because you've proved you deserved to be a rank up, but have to win a select few specific games in a Series just to actually go up that rank, then you're more likely to rage/be toxic to people who don't do well in that game. Why? Because the stakes are so much higher, for no good reason. Because you're not just losing more LP from that one feeding botlaner, you're losing your entire series. You're not just losing more LP from that one 'Diamond I Smurf Warwick Mid'. You're losing your entire series.
While much of the player base is capable of handling these situations without resorting to toxicity, if a player is going to rage, it's liable to be in that moment; when all of their hard work is crushed by one other allied player, because of the way Riot's 'Series' System functions.

Another benefit of removing series is that it'd help destroy the concept of 'ELO hell', whether it exists or not, by making transition between divisions much smoother. Currently, a player could effectively win almost every single one of his games, but still be stuck in Bronze V because he had 1 or 2 AFKers on his team in each series. This situation is highly hypothetical and unlikely, but it isn't unlikely that players are often screwed out of ranking up because of a troll/feeder/afker in their Promos. In fact, I'd say this probably happens a lot.

Last but not least, lag. Lag is obviously a major factor in winning or losing in a game like this, especially lately with all of the apparent DDOS attacks and major server lag spikes. The Loss Prevented system is helpful but we all know how unreliable it can be. Lose a game due to lag, lose full LP - win the next game, have your LP cut in half because of loss prevention? Those sort of issues. The biggest problem is that Loss Prevention doesn't actually apply to series. Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if everyone in your game lags out and the servers are being DDOS attacked and Riot turns on Loss Forgiven, you're STILL counted as having a 'loss' for that game in your Promo Series.


Basically, Promo Series increase the excitement of the game on a small scale, by making certain games more important. I believe Riot has specifically said this is their reason for wanting series in the game.

But that increase in 'excitement' comes at the cost of;
Increased stress & anxiety
Increased punishment from trolling teammates
Increased punishment from AFKing teammates
Increased punishment from feeding teammates
Increased toxicity
Increased rage
Increased belief in & rage over the concept of 'ELO hell'
And finally,

Increased factor of 'random chance' in determining your placement, rather than skill.





How is it worth it?



EDIT: An excellent compromise has been suggested. Keeping Promo Series only between ranks, but not between divisions.
So, for example, there'd still be the increased stress & excitement of going from Platinum to Diamond, or even just Bronze to Silver - but you wouldn't have to go through that stress for every division, between Bronze V, IV, III, etc.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 01:03 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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1 Week Ago
11 of 34 Riot Posts

Hey guys, thanks for all the feedback, ive only gotten through the first 7 pages or so now, and im on my phone, which is dying . Taking a break for a few hours, ill be back later to finish looking through this and responding (on a real computer, lol). Until then, I hope the replies I made so far have answered some more general concerns.

Thanks again!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:58 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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1 Week Ago
10 of 34 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thryale View Post
Okay, I'd honestly like to hear why riot thinks the current live cass falls off late game. She currently has some of the best wave clear, highest dps in team fights (due to her massive aoe dmg) and great dueling potential. She is the ideal siege champ. And until ziggs came in and took her place she was fine.

(personal experience illustration ahead, take it as you will)

I was playin a game as cass a while back, winning my lane. Was about a kill up and a lot of farm up against the enemy liss. My team, however wasn't doin so hot. I get gang banged by their jungler and their bot lane under my tower and die. As I'm headed back to lane, I ping out and get dc'd. It takes me about 2 whole min just to get back in. What greats me is, against all odds, the enemy whacking away at my nexus!! I was pissed. I quickly finish up my liandris and rylais(had a chunk of cash that I wasn't able to spend till now, already had the haunting guise tho) and rush out to stop them. Their low health and my ability to burn thru them due to my dots and some good positioning allowed me to chase them away from out base and score a couple of kills. Several tense minutes later I'm able to rally my team together and we make an amazing comback.

I say this because I want to highlight what I think makes cass cass. Cass isn't about machine gunning down her opponents. It's about the slow/fast burn of her poison combined with liandri's that can make even the tankiest champs afraid of approaching cass without a solid plan of engagement. Cass's E spam isn't her main weapon, it's her side arm to use when needed. It's something she whips out for extra dmg or to kill someone that jumps on her. But in a game where cass is in control, she won't be needing it as much as you think. Cass relies on manipulating the enemy's position with her W and burning them down with her Q. Her ult is a great counter engage as well as leaving champs open to melting.

Speaking of melting, that is the key phrase I want you to get out of this. Cass melts ppl. She doesn't burst ppl, she doesn't chunk ppl, she doesn't delete ppl. She melts them. The new cass changes you are proposing makes cass just a normal chunking mage like ryze. Heck, teemo will be a better poison mage after these changes than cass. We cannot let teemo be better than anyone at anything, now can we? But I digress. The main thing I love about live cass is after buying liandri's and rylais I can just watch any champ simply melt as I stuff them full of poison.

As far as strengths are concerned, cass is great at long, protracted fights, where wave clear, patience, and whittling away the enemy are involved. "is the enemy full of really tanky champs?" Pick cass! have a solid front like, and cass can just eat away at those tanky champs like no other. Cass isn't like normal carries, she doesn't kill things quickly, she kills things with certainty. She forces the enemy to make a move before they lose the advantage, causing them to make mistakes.

Also, a huge problem with you trying to emphasize her "carry" aspect is the act that she can never truly carry. Why do we bring adc's to our team? is it just for the dmg? No, if we wanted just dmg, we'd fill our comps full of mages and assassins. No, the reason we bring adc's is so that we can take down towers. In low lvl play, it's not as important, but it's still pretty important. But especially in high lvl play, you need that ranged adc to poke down that tower as you make rotations and take objectives. How does giving cass more dmg help her take towers? Mages have never been great at taking towers, and lich bane only makes them passable at it.
Its true that Cass had really powerful late game wave clear. However, this doesnt seem like an appropriate strength on a poison mage. When I think Cassio, I dont think siege/wave clear, thats much more Ziggs' s thing (even if Cassiopeia was comparably strong, it fit Ziggs identity much better). So we had to rethink Cassiopeias identiy a bit, and we landed on poisoner with tons of damage, and we think this fit the champion well.

As for taking towers, these changes help that significantly thanks to AP translating into bonus damage to basic attacks on towers. She still wont be anywhere near as good as Jinx, but she'll be a little better for sure.

I really appreciate your thoughts on Cassiopeia's identity as a "melting" dot mage, rather than a chunker or a burster or a traditional dot mage or what have you-- very interesting and thoughtful ideas here. Id like to highlight that liandrys is likely to still be strong, albeit less so. She will feel less melty and more chunky come late game, thats for sure, so I'm sorry about that . Your ideas for her as a champion may well suit her better, but I also fear that they would be stepping on Brand's toes. In the future, im sure we'll do more work at differentiating dot based champions in our game (malz, morde, brand, cassi, etc) and id definitely like for one of them to more closely hit on your ideas here. Im sorry that this version of Cassiopeia wont be exactly that, but I am definitely confident in the direction that we're taking her, even if it de-emphasizes melty dot damage a bit.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:43 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktorious Alekt View Post
Because it is not meant to be creeping up that slowly. And will reward Cassiopeia viscious and agressive laning without rewarding a kill.

This is the path that seems to be taken by the rework. Before, you would "lane agressively to kill". Now, it's going to be "lane agressively to get that passive up".
I am sure some Cassiopeia players could manage to have those 400 stacks at 12 minute in the game.
Id love to see that . I suppose it could happen!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:41 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viktorious Alekt View Post
I know that the rework is quite unpopular. I played and still play Cassiopeia a lot. For now, I play her as a support.

Right now, I am worried about the Cooldown updates on the abilities.

There might be some confusion about the 4 seconds cooldown Noxious Blast. In fact, it's a strange mechanic. We used to see Cassiopeia chain casting Noxious Blast as a way to chase and refresh the poison. It was three seconds before. But, with the *free* 25% CDR, it will be sitting at 3 seconds.

Before, you could have Noxious Blast with 1,8 seconds cooldown at 40% CDR.
To come, you will have Noxious Blast with 2,4 seconds cooldown at 40% CDR. 25% CDR means 3 seconds cooldown (back to original)

In lane, it will mean that keeping the target poisoned will be a quite different task; you will not be able to keep the target poisoned even if you hit with Noxious Blast. It also means that you will not be able to keep the chasing power at the early phase, AND the escape power from hitting Noxious blast during a gank.

Late game, it will mean that the transition from a target to another will be harder since the poison upkeep potential has been reduced. Technically, you will only be able to cast Q as fast as if you had no masteries and an Athene Unholy Grail ( That will be the max. One cast each 2,4 seconds.)

Did you think about the effect of having a lower frequency of Noxious Blast during a teamfight, or simple target transition? Which management was the difference between the good Cassiopeia and the great Cassiopeia?
Did you think about how important the speed buff was, since you will have a smaller window of opportunity to cast it?

The point is: giving cooldown reduction as a passive then increasing cooldown of certain abilities is an interesting dynamic. I agree with that.


Also, with the inflation of Ability Power that Cassiopeia will have with the rework, are you worried that it might hurt her less AP centric builds? For instance, Gunblade builds (Rare but amazingly rewarding and useful), Abyssal Scepters, No-rabadons build? Liandry's Torment with its 50 AP.
It's worrying because the poor ratios and base values seem to be forcing her in the path of the MAX AP Build, which is rarely seen.




Extra: She has a casting-before-death-cooldown bug on her ultimate that is heritating.
Those are some insightful thoughts about her Q cooldown. We considered these sprts of things when tuning the ability. The 4s CD in lane is an important gate on her lane bullying. Im actual fact, her base damages are not much lower, so when playing optimally in lane, she can still do a lot of damage. Mana and cooldown gates are in place to allow her average damage case to be appreciable in the early game while curbing her maximum potential dps. Her build path and her passive cdr allow her to overcome these gates in the mid/late game, unlocking her full damage potential. Thats the thinking anyway, we may have missed the marks a little bit, so we'll keep monitoring these numbers.

As for alternate builds, I've gotten consistent feedback that liandrys/rylais is actually the optimal build in the rework, even with nerfed ap ratios. The live on hit and cdr and reliability changes have actually done a lot for this build as well. The gunblade build may be even better than before, because of the focus on single target spells and her passive healing. I look forward to seeing that one . Build stuff is all very up in the air, I have my theories and goals for which builds I want to see, but ill have to see how it shakes out after being on the live environment for a while and having everybody experiment with builds that I may not have even thought of. I definitely expect to see some diversity.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:31 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morzas View Post
I asked this on the PBE forums too: Why does Cassiopeia's new passive use this 75/200/400 stack mechanic when you could have her passive power up every time she ranks her ultimate?
That could have been an option. However, the stacking mechanism allows us to more precisely choose at which points in the game she 'turns on' and it rewards good play, rather than just ambiently happening. Its true that it largely further encourages actions that Cass players should be doing anyway, but it also makes these actions more meaningful, thus instructing players who are unfamiliar with the champion and further rewarding players who have spent more time honing their Cass skills.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:24 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySylvee View Post
Played around 6 games of her on PBE. Almost all were stomps so it was hard to get that good a feel for her but here's what I think so far.

+ New passive is awesome. It gives her a lot of things that she wanted already and really gives a good representation of when you're really hitting late game. It's engaging and fun to build up stacks. Encourages smart spell usage.

+ Old passive is gone. I really didn't realize how much I didn't like her old passive until it was gone. It felt like it was punishing you for not using it well rather then rewarding you for smart play.

+ Mana sustain is great. I love being able to actually cast E on minions, and am actually encouraged to do so. It works well with her new passive too.

+ New E checks are nice. I haven't dropped E yet unless I clearly targeted something that wasn't poisoned.

+ Range indicator on Q makes it a lot more clear as to whether you are hitting your opponent or not. I don't have to check to see if I got the passive move speed boost anymore.

+ Encouraging passive laning means that I don't overextend for kills and get ganked as much.

+ Wraiths are super easy now.

+ Holy cow E deals so much damage.

- Poison is still really hard to tell. A better visual indicator would be MUCH appreciated. (Like if you could turn them green or something)

- I would much rather that the tier 1 and 2 passive bonuses were cheaper and didn't give as much AP. I think the utility of them is a lot better then the slight increase in damage they provide. I liked the older system where it was 50, 150, 375 for the bonuses.

- I can't think of much else. All the downsides that happen I understand why they exist. I think it's a great rework and really hope you guys go through with it.

+ The biggest one: Cass will finally have a niche and might actually be picked competitively again. She's my favorite champ and I'm really looking forward to seeing her at a competitive level again.
Im so happy to hear that someone who loves cassio likes our work on her! Thanks for taking the time share your thoughts. I agree that visuals are pretty bad, and this is something that we'll be looking into for Cass as well as other champions who use similar mechanics. Not sure if we'll have anything deliverable on this any time soon, but we are definitely aware of the problem. Interesting point about the first 2 rewards, ill definitely keep that in mind.

Thanks again!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:17 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Cobra View Post
Stashu,

D1 Cassi main here. Most games on her in NA!!

I'm really enjoying the direction you're taking with the rework. That being said, I have only one question:

What is the CD reset on Twin Fang? I have seen numerous videos of PBE Cassio's Twin Fang resetting to .7 seconds instead of .5 seconds. This really hurts an advanced move for her if it isn't truly .5 seconds - that being actually moving into melee range in duels because Twin Fang currently resets on hit - meaning the closer you are the more damage you do (the closer to .5 seconds you actually become).


Other than that I'm glad to see some of the things I suggested a while back made it into the rework such as life vamp on Twin Fang and CD reset checks. Very cool.

Edit: The guy a few posts up who made the point about the splash art matching base skin - I agree with him. The splash art doesn't really reflect the base skin and his changes are awesome.
Thanks! It should be 0.5, if its 0.7, some funky stuff is happening, and we'll fix it. Let me know if this is the case!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:15 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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1 Week Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNSD Tiffanyx View Post
the problem with cassio is her inability to escape ganks in this heavy mobility meta, hence she will never be popular UNLESS the meta changes:

she is extremely positioning dependent, more so than alot of the current ADC(lucian, tris, kog) because these guys have some form of dash/slow/escape, whereas cassio relies heavily on a well timed Q for a speed boost or a nicely positioned W for a slow, both which are relatively ineffective against the current mobility meta: once cassio is caught, chances are, she is dead. And that's a huge thing for a mid laner, because if you look at the current mids, they either have some form of escape or they have ways to block off certain abilities allowing them an easiler time dodging ganks.




I'm getting ganked by mom right now so this is why this post will remain unfinished
Interesting, do you really find kog more slippery than cass? He has a powerful slow, but Cass has a pretty good, reliable slow, a [conditional] 30% speed boost, and if all else fails, a very powerful disengage ult. Now, kog does have a range advantage on Cass, and that counts for a lot. In compensation, Cass' s damage should be able to eclipse even kpgmaw come late game, as long as shes in range.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Riot Stashu
1 Week Ago 12:10 PM
General Discussion

Riot Stashu

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3 of 34 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVNsNASmurf View Post
The problem with "lane bully poison cass" atm is it doesn't exist. There is zero ability for her to meaningfully lane bully the way yasuo, syndra, ziggs do.

The aim of "Poison then mash E to murder" is awesome, and it's the best outcome for her, as her late game atm is short ranged and highly skilled without the toughness or mana pile ryze has.

The rework should aim for these things:

The ability and want to have a lichbane like e cast after every single q and w.
The feeling of a good E use for CSing, poke etc.
Lower her ult's cast animation, you waste half the CC looking at them.

You need to make the MS steroid on Q and the slow on W the main chunks of the ability, as thats what will let cass stay in range to spam e's. And if thats where the damage will be, tune q and w to more utility spells.
So we've actually done a lot of this! Lich bane itself wont work, because Twin Fang does more damage than lich bane and has a faster cast time than her basic attack. And the ults cast animatiom is pretty important to the identity and counteplay of the ability, so its unlilely that we'll touch that. But! We have made the ult much more reliable against targets directly on top of her, which has always been a problem (enemies incidentally dodge the ult, just by getting close to her to the point where cones become impossible to predoctably hit. This isnt a problem anymore).

E restores mana on unit kill, I forgot to include that in the notes, but that should go a long way towards making it feel better for last hitting.

Q ms and W slow have both gone up, just as you say. I agree with your points here.


That new Xerath lore posted on facebook. RiotRunaan
1 Week Ago 09:40 AM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

1 Week Ago
5 of 5 Riot Posts

Hey guys, very quick responses to a few concerns that have come up:

-What kind of stories have a disclaimer about the villain's (or any dislikeable character's) perspective eventually coming into play? Do people interrupt movies to let you know that, HEY man, in act 3, you're going to feel sympathetic towards this character you dislike right now - don't worry! This seems very silly to me.
-When I said it's from Azir's PoV I didn't necessarily mean that in the pure literary sense (as in "he is the speaker all the time"), I meant that the story is shaped around him as a character. Others may "lead" at times, but the events of the story largely circle Azir.
-The teaser isn't strictly in Azir's PoV, you're right, but it's meant to introduce the idea of Shurima's history (and specifically the history of its last emperor).
-With that in mind, to the majority of people in Valoran/Runeterra, Xerath is always going to seem like the "bad guy" - the guy who causes massive destruction because he seeks power, however secretly sympathetic his motives may be, is not going to go down in history as a hero.


Let's Talk Cassiopeia WookieeCookie
1 Week Ago 08:58 PM
General Discussion

WookieeCookie

Player Support Lead -
Player Behavior

1 Week Ago
2 of 34 Riot Posts

Rioter is confirmed legit. We'll have to get this man a red name stat though.

In the mean time, let's try re-opening this thread!


Let's Talk Cassiopeia Morello
1 Week Ago 08:14 PM
General Discussion

Morello

Lead Designer

1 Week Ago
1 of 34 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamLeviathan View Post
No clue! Last posts on this account look ancient and definitely not from a rioter. Though there's a good chance this is a case of "hired since then" or something, since the system has let him have a "riot" name

Edit: Yeah, account name used to be Trustash. So he probably just never got all the right flags checked off on the account or whatever when he got hired
He's a confirmed red, just haven't set up his name to be actually red yet. This is a legit Casseopia post!


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum ManWolfAxeBoss
1 Week Ago 03:00 PM
General Discussion

ManWolfAxeBoss

QA Analyst

1 Week Ago
2 of 12 Riot Posts

Hey dudes,

Let's chat.

First off, I want to reiterate what Ghostcrawler said. We won't be removing Dominion nor the Alternate Maps team. We've accomplished a lot this last year with both Dom and TT - They're both in a much better state of balance and overall health than they ever have been.

Secondly, I'll be frank. Dominion does not have the player base to support a ranked queue right now. It's not a matter of diluting the primary game mode or needing extra dev support, the population just isn't large enough to sustain a healthy queue. How do we know this? Well, we've actually done quite a bit of research on how many players are needed for a healthy queue. When it's not met, we see stuff like increased toxicity, higher turnover, decrease in queue size and a generally degraded play experience. Splitting the already small community into two queues would create a poor experience for both sides. Waiting 30 minutes to play with people with a 500 elo disparity is no fun for anyone.

tl;dr - Unless something changes, we won't be enabling ranked.

BUT - Let's talk about what ranked means to you guys and why you want it. Is it the end of season rewards? Is it quantifying personal skill? Is it about competition? Perhaps there's an alternative to ranked that can achieve that goal.


That new Xerath lore posted on facebook. RiotRunaan
1 Week Ago 12:20 PM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

1 Week Ago
4 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraRising View Post
But, I ask again, are we going to get more than Azir's side of the story by the end of the event?
That would be spoilers. Geeze, you guys.

I posted in this thread because you won't see Xerath's side, in the very least, but I wanted to reassure you that we still remember the original depth to his character and wanted you to know that it's not lost. It's just that this particular story will focus on other angles to the events of Shurima.


Riot, here is Dominion's final ultimatum Ghostcrawler
1 Week Ago 12:18 PM
General Discussion

Ghostcrawler

Lead Game Designer

Follow Ghostcrawler on Twitter

1 Week Ago
1 of 12 Riot Posts

Hey guys,

We appreciate the passion, and we're going to try to address this with a one, two punch. I'm going to talk high-level League design philosophy and Manwolf will jump in with some Dominion specifics.

First, Dominion isn't going anywhere. Ascension is a new temporary game mode that we hope you'll enjoy, but it is just using some Dominion assets, not replacing the game.

However, this is a good opportunity to reaffirm why we like temporary game modes in the first place. League is largely centered around Summoner's Rift. That focus lets us design the game specifically for that map. We can make decisions about everything from movement speed to ult cooldowns with SR in mind. We constrain ourselves if we have to make sure a design change will work on any number of maps, and it bloats the game and introduces bugs when we make a lot of special case rules about items or abilities for the alternate maps. We still do it, but it's a last resort.

Now that's largely an argument for why it's easier for us to develop with a single map focus. But we think there is also benefit for players above and beyond our just being able to offer a better experience. The more maps and alternate game modes we offer, the more it subdivides the player population. We're at a state where that situation isn't too bad, but imagine what League would feel like with a dozen maps, and players split among all of them. It's one of the challenges of matchmaking that the more game modes you support, the harder it is to find a good game for anyone. Furthermore, it just divides up the mind share. Games like soccer and chess aren't played on a variety of "maps." There are some variant rules, and they serve similar goals as ours do: to give players something more when they've gotten a little bored of the standard way to play.

This is one of the reasons we spun up a team to specifically focus on temporary game modes, such as URF, Doombots and now Ascension. We feel like we can offer a fun and novel way to play League, without the commitment to eternal upkeep, especially for those modes that end being less awesome than some of the others. I mention this, because we think the future of alternate maps for League lies with alternate game modes (and I'm specifically talking maps with different rules -- cosmetic art changes to existing maps is a different topic). In the meantime, we do have Twisted Treeline, Crystal Scar and Howling Abyss, and we want to keep supporting them, recognizing that they aren't as central to the game as Summoner's Rift and therefore will probably never have the audience of Summoner's Rift. We also understand the perception of a vicious spiral here. Specifically, the less attention Riot pays to those maps, the less likely the audience is to grow, which means Riot is less likely to pay additional attention, and so on.


That new Xerath lore posted on facebook. RiotRunaan
1 Week Ago 12:07 PM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

1 Week Ago
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corvic Maractis View Post
If this is true and you dont want it to be like an encyclopedia entry then you need to say so from the beginning whose view it is from else we do take it as straight up fact and that provides nothing but us Assuming it is FACT on what happened. This has been a huge issue for you guys in the lore department where you make a story onesided but dont tell us it is onesided except in offhand comments. You really need to create a listing of view points or convey better that it is from one person's view else we get these threads and anger that all of us that follow the lore have pent up from such a long silence from you.

EDIT: You probably won't even read this as Riot has a stance of ignoring most criticism/conversational things nowadays from what I have experienced.
Err, stories are never really ABOUT facts, stories are stories - again, it seems like you're asking for super objective stuff when stories are subjective things. Also, it would feel clumsy (and again, more like an encyclopedia) to have a "list of points of view" - the story should imply that for itself. In this case, I'm speaking ahead of the story that's going to unfold for you guys. Hopefully it comes across that the story is primarily about Azir, thus colored by who he is as a character.


Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it WookieeCookie
1 Week Ago 11:25 AM
Lore Discussion

WookieeCookie

Player Support Lead -
Player Behavior

1 Week Ago
7 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhugan View Post
That story sounds contrived. Against something like the IoW, Demacia and Noxus have obvious reasons to join together. Given how minions were created within the lore, Summoners would always have the numerical advantage. So, they would HAVE to work together.
What more reason would two factions that strongly dislike each other need when faced with complete destruction? If you were to ask me, what makes it more interesting without the IoW is that Demacia, Noxus, and any other faction would have to actually negotiate, compromise, and scheme on their own; without being handheld by the omnipotent IoW and their master summoners.

Envision a clandestine meeting between Swain and Jarvan in a small sea side port, off the radar and without any public attention. Both know that the people of Noxus and Demacia would riot if they knew their leaders were plotting together, but time is running out. Unfortunately for them, not everyone is on board. LeBlanc has no love for Demacia, and she's grown tired of Noxian leadership. Noxus is facing the greatest threat in years, yet they're too busy coddling the enemy to fight back. The Black Rose has been waiting in the shadows for its time to rise to power, and that time is now.

While diplomacy and scheming are conducted under the constant ticking of the doomsday clock' two unlikely allies, Garen and Katarina; must set aside their differences to uncover a conspiracy that threatens to tear Runeterra's two greatest kingdoms apart. But in the end who can they really trust?


Or, with the IoW we could have something like:

The time has come! The endless horde of the Void have arrived and portals to another world have begun opening everywhere. Years without war have left Runeterra's kingdoms weaker than ever. Thankfully the IoW has prepared for this moment. Using the immense powers they possess they force Demacia and Noxus into a union that neither can resist. Despite protests, the IoW assumes controls of the world's greatest champions and destroys the void invasion before it even begins. All is normal once again, and the League of Legends can continue. The people of Runeterra safe in the knowledge that no harm, no change, no progress, can come to them under the diligent gaze of the IoW.

I'll be honest with you. There are a lot of possibilities with the second story, but it's a lot less interesting than the first. The difference is that without the IoW the characters of LoL drive the story. With the IoW these faceless wizards of infinite might control everything despite what cool characters, legends, politics or events happen.

I'd like to put a disclaimer, that everything I said above is completely made up. I'm not involved in writing stories, but it's the opportunities for our lore team and writers that really get me excited about the possibilities for upcoming content! The reason I put it out there is to hopefully get your guys' creative juices flowin' as well. There's a whole new world of plot twists waiting for us all to discover.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhugan View Post
I'm sorry, but how is Cho'gath (on his own) supposed to seem threatening to the ENTIRETY of the Noxus/Zaun Alliance? Given some of Singed's creations they could just drop about ten thousand pounds of poison and acid on Cho from about ten miles away and call it a day.
One of the cool things about disassociating the story of Runeterra with the game is that it gives better flexibility to the power of champions. In game Cho'Gath unique ability to grow stronger is reflected in his ultimate. When he eats something he gains more health and becomes bigger. For gameplay reasons this stacks up to 6 times, and then he receives no bonus afterwards. But in lore? Who's to say he'll cap out at all? Perhaps the nations of Runeterra wait too long debating about what to do, and Cho'Gath has grown to such a size that not even Singed's poisons launched from siege weapons can stop him!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhugan View Post
Why worry about Brand when Lissandra obviously has to kill him for her world to come into existence? (Not to mention that Anivia is another creature of pure ice that would need for Brand to be dead.)
How easy is it for Lissandra to kill Brand? She'll have to find him first won't she? Does she leave the Freljord often? Lissandra doesn't seem like the type to just wander around Runeterra. Does she have allies or minions that can do it for her? Does she need to lead them? Get them resources? Would Ashe or Sejunai have anything to say about it? Would they need to help her end Brand, or do they think she's the greater threat?

So many questions are opened up now that the IoW isn't there to take Lissandra and Brand put them in the room and say "Now Kiss!".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhugan View Post
T
ALL OF THAT, ignores that with the retcon almost all of the past stories don't really exist anymore. If those stories don't exist, then the characters don't exist as we know them.

If they characters don't exist as we know them because Riot is willing to do away with several years of lore to "facilitate better storytelling", what is to stop you from doing this again and again whenever things get harder to do? (And, you'll notice I put that part in quotes. That's for a reason. There is no better storytelling when you fundamentally change characters that people had attachments to.)
I'd take some time looking at Runaan's original post in this thread. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that a lot of champions stories are not changing too much, even if the IoW is phased out. The core of each champion will remain. She used Orianna as an example. But let's look at another champion like say Lee Sin. A failed wizard who's penance was to become a monk. In the IoW version Lee Sin was an aspiring Summoner practicing magic outside of his control, in the new version, who's to say he can't still be an aspiring and confident wizard who's failure resulted in the deaths of hundreds of innocents?


That new Xerath lore posted on facebook. RiotRunaan
1 Week Ago 10:37 AM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

1 Week Ago
2 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melancholy Exile View Post
Out of curiosity: Why?

Wouldn't it make sense for the lore to be presented in an objective fashion that lets us make our own judgements rather than letting one of the characters paint another as evil when they may not be? Aren't those who don't read deeply into the lore going to approach Xerath as a pure villain?
I think the Snape example still applies - sometimes it's worth it to save character details for later down the story, where the reveal might hold more meaning. Snape was pretty much a bad guy for most of Harry Potter (as it was from Harry's PoV). Don Draper may seem like an excessively misogynistic jerk through a lot of Mad Men, but revealing details about his upbringing sheds light on why this is a part of him - something that's not done until much, much later in the series.

What you seem to be asking for is all the details on every character up front. That isn't a story... it's an encyclopedia entry.


That new Xerath lore posted on facebook. RiotRunaan
1 Week Ago 10:26 AM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

1 Week Ago
1 of 5 Riot Posts

Hey, look! Stuff I wrote! :O Blast from the past. Xerath was actually the first character I wrote for entirely (Talon's judgment was my first), so this is a fun flashback.

So, no spoilers, but look at it this way: the Shurima event is largely going to be Azir's story, from Azir's point of view. Events will be colored in a way that may paint Xerath as the "villain" in this scenario, but that doesn't necessarily tell you the whole side of his story.

Imagine what the mages who imprisoned Xerath in his original lore thought of him: a guy who more or less betrayed his people, nuked their civilization, all for what? For power? They didn't have all the information that you guys have from his Judgment, for example. To them, he was also a very clear-cut "villain."

We always wanted Xerath to have a sympathetic backstory, even if he does cross a moral event horizon at some point. Remember when you hated Severus Snape for most of the Harry Potter series, only to have "his side" revealed much, much later, and how game-changing that was? Keep in mind that a story isn't always told with 100% of the information front loaded. Just because it's not immediately there, spelled out, doesn't mean it doesn't exist within the character, or we've forgotten about it.


Anyone here Bronze? Riot lancepantz
1 Week Ago 10:08 AM
General Discussion

Riot lancepantz

Senior Software Engineer

1 Week Ago
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by OctaSteve View Post
How many "is that a lance in you pants..." jokes do you get on a daily basis?
The nickname used to drive my crazy when I was a kid, then one day I just decided to own it


Anyone here Bronze? Riot lancepantz
1 Week Ago 10:00 AM
General Discussion

Riot lancepantz

Senior Software Engineer

1 Week Ago
2 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeronator View Post
LMAO DISGRACE TO THE RIOT COMPANY-.- I thought MacGruber is the only Rioter thats Bronze V, but I guess im wrong LOL
lol, he's right behind me, we're on the same team.


Anyone here Bronze? Riot lancepantz
1 Week Ago 09:54 AM
General Discussion

Riot lancepantz

Senior Software Engineer

1 Week Ago
1 of 4 Riot Posts

Me! I made it up to bronze IV a week ago, but dropped back down into V now.


Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it WookieeCookie
1 Week Ago 07:15 PM
Lore Discussion

WookieeCookie

Player Support Lead -
Player Behavior

1 Week Ago
6 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstyne View Post
It does sound cool..too bad I'll never see it reflected in gameplay , and therefore has no value to me as a player.
I don't know. Have you seen the new featured gameplay mode on PBE? It ties in with the Shurima storyline in a lot of ways. Now granted, you're not exactly recreating the events of the Shurima story, but you are tasked with a challenge reflected from that particular section of lore.

Who's to say that there couldn't be a Void Invasion featured game mode if we were to ever take the story in that direction? Perhaps a horde mode against an endless Void army? Or a mode where someone plays a super powered Cho'gath that can eat everyone in one hit?

I don't know; I just ban people, but I'm pretty excited by the possibilities here.

Granted, I can understand where you all are coming from; it's like only seeing half the picture. And you're right to be skeptical. Lore has been really slow late. So keep the story team on their toes. But... respectfully of course! I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what you see in the end.


Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it WookieeCookie
1 Week Ago 06:50 PM
Lore Discussion

WookieeCookie

Player Support Lead -
Player Behavior

1 Week Ago
5 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by VelNyeScienceEye View Post
The problem is that they're TOO MUCH of a threat. And unless Demacia and Noxus magically put aside their differences and team up to stop them(this might not even be enough to be honest), not much could actually stop them. Kog'Maw isn't even full grown and he can go through people like a lawnmower over the lawn.

Man, you're right. That story sounds awesome. I wonder how long the two sides would be able to trust in each other though?


Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it RiotRunaan
2 Weeks Ago 04:49 PM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

2 Weeks Ago
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by NVDax View Post
Ah yes Cho'gath, the void monster with the agenda to destroy the world... Bound by the summoners, as Nocturne was, as Brand was. They all getting retconed as well? What ARE you guys going to do with these characters who are out for blood and roaming around with no form of restraints.
Someone will have to stop them, huh? :O

Part of the reason I'm excited about the changes to these characters is that they finally get to have teeth again. They get to be dangerous. They get to be a real threat.


Riot, Destroy the League, Don't Erase it RiotRunaan
2 Weeks Ago 04:29 PM
Lore Discussion

RiotRunaan

Writer

2 Weeks Ago
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by General J Swain View Post
Wish I still cared. Wish you guys had more than excuses to give us after, what, two years of mediocrity?

If you find our lack of faith disturbing, give us something to put our faith in.
I wish this too. I know that we gotta put up or shut up. I'm sorry that you've lost faith, and I know that my repeated cries of "please bear with us" can only be put up with for so long - if you have lost the ability to listen, then it is my goal to win you back!